This is a photo of my Modele P.04 display.

John Holbrook · 11-10-2004, 11:52 AM

One of my gun show displays is a rotating display of historic military weapons. This old sailor certainly falls into that category!

Nobody has more fun than ME!!!!!

Ron Wood · 11-10-2004, 09:39 PM

That is a really nifty label to display with the Luger! A small point of clarification...although the Navy Luger is officially designated "Pistole Modele 1904 (P04)", that being the year it was adopted by the German Navy, actual 1904 Navy Lugers are quite rare and have significant mechanical differences from your Luger. Your Luger is a "1906 First Issue, Altered". It was manufactured around 1906 with the thumb safety "on" in the upper position with the lower position polished bright to indicate the safety was engaged. Rather than "in 1906 the thumb safety was modified..." your display should indicate that the piece was manufactured in 1906 and some time after 1906 it was modified to have the thumb safety to be "on" in the lower position and the "Gesichert" marking added. A slight distinction true, but for such a nice display it is worth having this small degree of increased accuracy. You have a very nice Luger.

John Holbrook · 11-10-2004, 10:58 PM

OK Ron, I think I have it figured out, I will modify the placard and repost tomorrow, thanks...

BTW, this is what the display looks like...

George Anderson · 11-11-2004, 07:14 AM

Ron, I have always understood that the Imperial Navy designated all of their six inch Lugers as "Pistole 1904 or P04". Other designations such as "06 altered" are simply helpful terminology used by collectors.

Ron Wood · 11-11-2004, 07:47 AM

You are absolutely correct George. I indicated that the model was "officially" designated P04, and what I was really pointing out is that this Luger was not made in 1904 and altered in 1906, but rather it was manufactured in 1906 and altered at a later date. Sometimes I use too many words to make a simple statement.

John Holbrook · 11-11-2004, 01:04 PM

OK, here is my latest rendition of the P.04 placard..... Comments???????

Ron Wood · 11-11-2004, 04:25 PM

Works for me...and to repeat myself, you have a very nice Luger.

karmast · 11-13-2004, 06:39 AM

A little correction by a German native speaking:

Please do not write "Modele", it is called "Modell" with a double "l".

And a very common mistake done by english-spoken people: It is not "Kreigsmarine", but "Kriegsmarine", the "i" before the "e".

But that old warhorse looks really wonderful to me, as the other pistols do! And I love the way of your presentation! Would be ver nice, if you could post more pix!!

John Holbrook · 11-13-2004, 11:28 AM

OKEY DOKEY, HOW'S THIS?????

John Holbrook · 11-13-2004, 11:43 AM

If you want more photos, this is what I really do. I have been collecting early, historically important M1911/M1911A1 .45's for many years.

This display contains 6 Model Of 1911 U.S. Navys that were assigned to US Battleships. I am always searching for military .45's with provenance...

BTW, the lower Colt on the right off the USS Delaware, is serial number 810, it was in the FIRST shipment of 500 pistols from Colt to the US Navy in 1912..

John Sabato · 11-15-2004, 09:52 AM

As always, an envious collection John... Certainly the 1911 from the U.S.S. Arizona must be a prize of your collection.

karmast · 11-15-2004, 02:08 PM

First of all: the sign is great now!!

And your other collection is wonderful, also to a non-Colt-collector!! The Colt has always been the better pistol in war (yes, shame on me, and those words on a Lugerforum, but thruth must be spoken..) and your collection is really great.
But I don`t get one single thing: what did you mean with "U.S. Navys that were assigned to US Battleships"? Do you know so very exactly, where this special piece has been? If so, it would be totally uncommon for a collector of german handguns. In our field here it is more often to NOT know, where our little princesses have been..
Had these Navy 1911 a special marking or do you know from the army archives and the serial nr.?

John Holbrook · 11-15-2004, 05:53 PM

Colt kept very good shipping records. Springfield Research also has many records from the National Archives. This example came from a private family which gives it excellent provenance..

John Holbrook · 11-15-2004, 06:14 PM

Here is another example. Colt Navy serial number 810, BTW, this old Colt was in the first shipment of 500 pistols to the Navy in 1912..

Note the "DEL" marking on the frame. This was the unit marking for the USS Delaware. In 1937 this Colt was transferred to the US Coast Guard Station on Cape Cod, Mass.... (IT'S GOOD TO BE ON THE WINNING SIDE!)

pipeman45 · 11-16-2004, 03:23 AM

All I can say is WOW.There is a lot of history in that display.If only they could talk.

jamese · 11-16-2004, 04:52 PM

Somehow I don't think "WOW" cover the bases, its a bit of an understatment

Thats a great display of history, I hope I get to see the display in person.

thank you for sharing it with us

Jim

karmast · 11-21-2004, 11:43 AM

as I stated before: totally unknown to Luger collector to know exactly the nearer cirmcumstances of duty! Outstanding.

larry · 12-04-2004, 04:31 PM

What happened to the Navy guys? Christmas shopping for Navy Lugers?
larry

Navy · 12-09-2004, 07:52 PM

Sorry, just been *extremely* busy of late and have had precious little time to eat and sleep, much less "Luger"...have managed to cut some deals for new acquisitions, among them a terrific Weimar Navy rig N205, as shown in Jan's Weimar Book P78.

Have another one pending that will be the centerpiece of my collection...more about that as it gets closer to being reality.

Tom A.

11-10-2004, 11:52 AM	#1
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is a photo of my Modele P.04 display. One of my gun show displays is a rotating display of historic military weapons. This old sailor certainly falls into that category! Nobody has more fun than ME!!!!! __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-10-2004, 09:39 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	That is a really nifty label to display with the Luger! A small point of clarification...although the Navy Luger is officially designated "Pistole Modele 1904 (P04)", that being the year it was adopted by the German Navy, actual 1904 Navy Lugers are quite rare and have significant mechanical differences from your Luger. Your Luger is a "1906 First Issue, Altered". It was manufactured around 1906 with the thumb safety "on" in the upper position with the lower position polished bright to indicate the safety was engaged. Rather than "in 1906 the thumb safety was modified..." your display should indicate that the piece was manufactured in 1906 and some time after 1906 it was modified to have the thumb safety to be "on" in the lower position and the "Gesichert" marking added. A slight distinction true, but for such a nice display it is worth having this small degree of increased accuracy. You have a very nice Luger. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-10-2004, 10:58 PM	#3
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK Ron, I think I have it figured out, I will modify the placard and repost tomorrow, thanks... BTW, this is what the display looks like... __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-11-2004, 07:47 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	You are absolutely correct George. I indicated that the model was "officially" designated P04, and what I was really pointing out is that this Luger was not made in 1904 and altered in 1906, but rather it was manufactured in 1906 and altered at a later date. Sometimes I use too many words to make a simple statement. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-11-2004, 01:04 PM	#6
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, here is my latest rendition of the P.04 placard..... Comments??????? __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-11-2004, 07:14 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Ron, I have always understood that the Imperial Navy designated all of their six inch Lugers as "Pistole 1904 or P04". Other designations such as "06 altered" are simply helpful terminology used by collectors.

11-11-2004, 04:25 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Works for me...and to repeat myself, you have a very nice Luger. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-13-2004, 06:39 AM	#8
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A little correction by a German native speaking: Please do not write "Modele", it is called "Modell" with a double "l". And a very common mistake done by english-spoken people: It is not "Kreigsmarine", but "Kriegsmarine", the "i" before the "e". But that old warhorse looks really wonderful to me, as the other pistols do! And I love the way of your presentation! Would be ver nice, if you could post more pix!! __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

11-13-2004, 11:28 AM	#9
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OKEY DOKEY, HOW'S THIS????? __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-13-2004, 11:43 AM	#10
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you want more photos, this is what I really do. I have been collecting early, historically important M1911/M1911A1 .45's for many years. This display contains 6 Model Of 1911 U.S. Navys that were assigned to US Battleships. I am always searching for military .45's with provenance... BTW, the lower Colt on the right off the USS Delaware, is serial number 810, it was in the FIRST shipment of 500 pistols from Colt to the US Navy in 1912.. __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-15-2004, 09:52 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	As always, an envious collection John... Certainly the 1911 from the U.S.S. Arizona must be a prize of your collection. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-15-2004, 02:08 PM	#12
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First of all: the sign is great now!! And your other collection is wonderful, also to a non-Colt-collector!! The Colt has always been the better pistol in war (yes, shame on me, and those words on a Lugerforum, but thruth must be spoken..) and your collection is really great. But I don`t get one single thing: what did you mean with "U.S. Navys that were assigned to US Battleships"? Do you know so very exactly, where this special piece has been? If so, it would be totally uncommon for a collector of german handguns. In our field here it is more often to NOT know, where our little princesses have been.. Had these Navy 1911 a special marking or do you know from the army archives and the serial nr.? __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

11-15-2004, 05:53 PM	#13
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Colt kept very good shipping records. Springfield Research also has many records from the National Archives. This example came from a private family which gives it excellent provenance.. __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-15-2004, 06:14 PM	#14
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is another example. Colt Navy serial number 810, BTW, this old Colt was in the first shipment of 500 pistols to the Navy in 1912.. Note the "DEL" marking on the frame. This was the unit marking for the USS Delaware. In 1937 this Colt was transferred to the US Coast Guard Station on Cape Cod, Mass.... (IT'S GOOD TO BE ON THE WINNING SIDE!) __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

11-16-2004, 03:23 AM	#15
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	All I can say is WOW.There is a lot of history in that display.If only they could talk. __________________ Dave

11-16-2004, 04:52 PM	#16
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Somehow I don't think "WOW" cover the bases, its a bit of an understatment Thats a great display of history, I hope I get to see the display in person. thank you for sharing it with us Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

11-21-2004, 11:43 AM	#17
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	as I stated before: totally unknown to Luger collector to know exactly the nearer cirmcumstances of duty! Outstanding. __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

12-04-2004, 04:31 PM	#18
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	What happened to the Navy guys? Christmas shopping for Navy Lugers? larry

12-09-2004, 07:52 PM	#19
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Sorry, just been extremely busy of late and have had precious little time to eat and sleep, much less "Luger"...have managed to cut some deals for new acquisitions, among them a terrific Weimar Navy rig N205, as shown in Jan's Weimar Book P78. Have another one pending that will be the centerpiece of my collection...more about that as it gets closer to being reality. Tom A.