1939 Mauser Banner E/F

[PalmTree2]

Hi Sergio,

You are correct. I expected the Simpson side plate to be a better known item then obviously is here, which led to a conversation on originality, which affects value. Hopefully I did not offend anyone, but I had to laugh at the $1100 valuation, seems very out of touch with today's market. Sorry if it seemed off topic.

If anyone can point me towards HZa links or data bases, I would be most grateful.

Thanks for the help,
Mitch

[PalmTree2]

Hi Edward,

Thank you for the correction on Simson. Are you talking about the two numbers on the safety bar? My pictures are bad, apoligies I was in a hurry. The safety bar is marked "63". here is a better picture.

Thank you,
Mitch

[Edward Tinker]

thank you, I thought it was either eagle 6 and a number or erfurt and a number
this is a new variation and before you think we are rank amateurs, I co-wrote the book Simson Lugers and co-wrote Police Lugers- I have held scores of each in my hands, and have hundreds of pictures. BUT, I am still learning from others, to not learn from others would be stupid

I would not say this is a common variation. I have a police Mauser, 1939, S/42 (maybe 600 police) and there is actually very little information on Banner Commercials

its not what I collect, but I think I am a fairly rounded collector. I was completely correct in suggesting it as a mismatch value, but having it pointed out to me that the sideplate is correct, obviously this is a rarer variation and as all rarer variation goes, they have their own value.
A Banner Mauser - army (nice condition) goes from one collector to another for about $2500-$3000 - a Police, I would add another $1000, probably another $500 for a matching magazine - police matching mags are much more common than army IMHO. I would add another $1000 for such high condition, which, since you know Lugers so well, must be accurate.
I would think $4200-$5000 - but Mauser Banners are harder to sell, Mauser Banner Police even more so, you should gather up documentation such as this thread and keep it.

[PalmTree2]

Hi Edward,

I noticed your book accomplishments right away, was not calling anyone amateurs by any means. I'm sure you are far more knowledgeable on Lugers than I. Look, I did not even know how to spell Simson! LOL. That's a very fair last post you made, Thank you.

Mitch

[PalmTree2]

Edward,

do you know if the hidden "ss" in front of upper lug have any significance? I've seen tons of random letters on axis guns, especially Mausers. That can't be thee SS, right?

Thanks,
Mitch

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by PalmTree2

Edward,

do you know if the hidden "ss" in front of upper lug have any significance? I've seen tons of random letters on axis guns, especially Mausers. That can't be thee SS, right?

Thanks,
Mitch

any hidden marks are always attributed to 'worker marks'; i.e. put there by workers to ensure things were done right. I would think that the 'ss' is that. If any kind of an acceptance stamp or proof I would expect it to be in the open and easily seen.

[PalmTree2]

I agree, but had to ask!

[PalmTree2]

Well.....I think I'll sell the gun. As I'm a P.38 addict, and a Luger dabbler. It sure would finance a nice P.38. I'll have to up my patron dues with John and throw it up for sale with a nice discount in the for sale section. After some proper pics of course.

Thanks for the help,

Mitch

[RockinWR]

Mitch,
* What straw parts are you seeing on this Luger??
* Also, what color is the rivet holding the sear safety??
Bob

[mrerick]

Now that it's more clear about your objective for posting this very unusual Luger, I can understand why a "shooter" class price was not very interesting. I also initially thought that the plate had been swapped, but now don't believe that is the case.

I don't think that Mauser gave less attention to fulfilling commercial contracts than military ones. The contracts were signed and had to be fulfilled. Commercial buyers had different and less sophisticated inspection procedures and standards.

August Weiss would have been responsible for fulfillment of production contracts. As with most Germans of this era they didn't waste anything. A source of older parts like Simson side plates would not be wasted - and probably would not have been used for a military contract.

Assembly procedures at Mauser are known to some degree. One area that has been well documented is they way that Mauser matched side plates to pistols. They numbered the plate inside with either the first 1 or 2 digits of the serial number, or the first digit(s) plus 1. On your pistol, you would expect to find the number "9" stamped inside the side plate and the number "63" on the outside.

You reported that inside the side plate you found the number "6". This could equally be the number "9" upside down. As that is the case, I think that this is evidence that you have a side plate fitted at the Mauser factory.

The HZA marked sear could be on the gun as the result of damage done to the original sear when the sear safety was installed. The number die digits don't look like Mauser dies. As this was done in a depot, and part of the history of the gun I don't think it detracts or adds to the value of the gun. I don't have details of the HZa locations or history.

The provision of strawed parts on a later commercial Luger is also not that unusual.

Finding a buyer at the price Ed estimated in his last post may be difficult since police Luger buyers are not so common. It might be worth talking with a dealer like Bob Simpson (with a "P") or Legacy Collectibles about consigning the gun for sale.

[PalmTree2]

Mrerick,

Thank you for taking the time on your post, info appreciated.

Mitch

[PalmTree2]

Just an update on this Luger. I sent it to Legacy collectibles on consignment, at the advise of Ed Tinker. It sold for $6750 in about 3 weeks. I'm pleased with that. Legacy is a great outfit to deal with, highly recommended. Thanks for the help guys.

Mitch

[DonVoigt]

Thanks for coming back with the price/sale update.
Too often we don't know how the story ends; this helps keep up with prices!
Congrats.