Who is Stark??

silverknife · 04-27-2011, 03:27 PM

I think that this 8 round mag is East German but who or what was Stark??

Thanks,
Doug

lew1 · 04-27-2011, 03:42 PM

Stark was located in Germany made pre WWII magazines. They are not common and some might consider them on the rare side.

I have a couple sitting around in the gun cabinet.

silverknife · 04-27-2011, 03:49 PM

Thank you for that info.

I guess that if the mag is pre WWII then it can't be East German or did they continue to make magazines after the war?

Regards,
Doug

Edward Tinker · 04-27-2011, 04:34 PM

No, it is late 20's, early 30's, the starburst or some folks say sunburst K is a police acceptance marking, as is the #1

In fact, I have owned 2 or 3 Stark magazines, but they are not common, yet well made.

Ed

silverknife · 04-27-2011, 04:59 PM

Very intersting. Thank you.

Regards,
Doug

Lugerdoc · 04-28-2011, 10:37 AM

I agree that these mags were made in the Weimar period for the police, but would like some verification as to the existance of a firm named Stark. Since this translates to "Strong", I always though the it was just a "new improved" construction. Something for the researchers to work on. TH

Edward Tinker · 04-28-2011, 11:36 AM

Tom, why would the 'word' Strong be put on a magazine like that in Germany?

In the US they had advertising or words on items, but no other magazine has words like that, only acceptance markings or the company name (Haenel)

Norme · 04-28-2011, 11:41 AM

It could mean "strong spring". Regards, Norm

Edward Tinker · 04-28-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

It could mean "strong spring". Regards, Norm

No Norm, I don't think so.

I have seen it primarily on police magazines and I believe it was a subcontractor, at least for the body.

I think someone found info on it, Vlim, possibly.

Ed

Vlim · 04-28-2011, 12:54 PM

Joop an Don wrote a bit about it in their book 'The Mauser Parabellum'.

There is no definitive conclusion, although I lean towards 'Stark' being a manufacturer's or brand name.

alanint · 04-28-2011, 01:50 PM

There was a German sheet metal and metallurgy company founded in Germany in 1920. They're name, however, is spelled "Starck" with an added "c"

sheepherder · 04-29-2011, 08:30 AM

Doug, I have a question...Is that aluminum bottom cast, or just oxidized/pitted with age???

silverknife · 04-29-2011, 06:39 PM

There are no visible mold marks. Some typlical very light aluminum oxidation with a shallow dent and scratch here and there. If the sun comes out in the morning, which as you know is higly unlikely here in Western NY, I will post a bunch of macro shots of the base and a few of the follower.

Did the Germans actually machine the bases? How would they have been made if not cast? Were they forged?

Regards,
Doug

Edward Tinker · 04-30-2011, 01:23 PM

GT can answer this immediately, but I am thinking that they are milled with later ones forged (post WW2)

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 04-30-2011, 01:41 PM

German pulls were milled untill East Germany started molding them from what I know.

G.T. · 04-30-2011, 03:52 PM

Hi Doug, one shot of the inside of the base, from the top, will tell us all we need to know.. as the spring seat hole edges will have a small redius relief on the edges if cast, and a machined one will be sharp edged..

.. I think this is a very, very early cast version.. but hard to tell without a look'e'see on the inside...

best to all, til...lat'r...GT

sheepherder · 05-01-2011, 11:50 AM

I am thinking this is a casting also...Based on the grainy look of the base, and the 'flat' in the middle of the concave knob...I've made a couple of 'knobs' like this using a ball end mill for the concave part, and while anything is possible, I don't think it is cost effective to add that flat to the end of a ball end mill cutter for a machined base...Just my opinion...

silverknife · 05-01-2011, 01:45 PM

I'm thinking cast because of what appear to be mold marks ground smooth on the top surfaces on the inside and the relief cuts mentioned by GT are present.

Regards,
Doug

sheepherder · 05-01-2011, 02:07 PM

Great pics! Right-click & Save!

silverknife · 05-01-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Great pics! Right-click & Save!

04-27-2011, 03:42 PM	#2
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Stark was located in Germany made pre WWII magazines. They are not common and some might consider them on the rare side. I have a couple sitting around in the gun cabinet. __________________ charlie

04-27-2011, 04:34 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	No, it is late 20's, early 30's, the starburst or some folks say sunburst K is a police acceptance marking, as is the #1 In fact, I have owned 2 or 3 Stark magazines, but they are not common, yet well made. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-28-2011, 10:37 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I agree that these mags were made in the Weimar period for the police, but would like some verification as to the existance of a firm named Stark. Since this translates to "Strong", I always though the it was just a "new improved" construction. Something for the researchers to work on. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-28-2011, 11:36 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Tom, why would the 'word' Strong be put on a magazine like that in Germany? In the US they had advertising or words on items, but no other magazine has words like that, only acceptance markings or the company name (Haenel) __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-29-2011, 08:30 AM	#12
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Doug, I have a question...Is that aluminum bottom cast, or just oxidized/pitted with age??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-27-2011, 03:27 PM	#1
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	Who is Stark?? I think that this 8 round mag is East German but who or what was Stark?? Thanks, Doug Attached Thumbnails

04-27-2011, 03:49 PM	#3
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	Thank you for that info. I guess that if the mag is pre WWII then it can't be East German or did they continue to make magazines after the war? Regards, Doug

04-27-2011, 04:59 PM	#5
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	Very intersting. Thank you. Regards, Doug

04-28-2011, 11:41 AM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	It could mean "strong spring". Regards, Norm

04-28-2011, 12:54 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Joop an Don wrote a bit about it in their book 'The Mauser Parabellum'. There is no definitive conclusion, although I lean towards 'Stark' being a manufacturer's or brand name.

04-28-2011, 01:50 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	There was a German sheet metal and metallurgy company founded in Germany in 1920. They're name, however, is spelled "Starck" with an added "c"

04-29-2011, 06:39 PM	#13
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	There are no visible mold marks. Some typlical very light aluminum oxidation with a shallow dent and scratch here and there. If the sun comes out in the morning, which as you know is higly unlikely here in Western NY, I will post a bunch of macro shots of the base and a few of the follower. Did the Germans actually machine the bases? How would they have been made if not cast? Were they forged? Regards, Doug

04-30-2011, 01:23 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	GT can answer this immediately, but I am thinking that they are milled with later ones forged (post WW2) Ed

04-30-2011, 01:41 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,852 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	German pulls were milled untill East Germany started molding them from what I know. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-30-2011, 03:52 PM	#16
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	cast?? Hi Doug, one shot of the inside of the base, from the top, will tell us all we need to know.. as the spring seat hole edges will have a small redius relief on the edges if cast, and a machined one will be sharp edged.... I think this is a very, very early cast version.. but hard to tell without a look'e'see on the inside... best to all, til...lat'r...GT

05-01-2011, 11:50 AM	#17
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I am thinking this is a casting also...Based on the grainy look of the base, and the 'flat' in the middle of the concave knob...I've made a couple of 'knobs' like this using a ball end mill for the concave part, and while anything is possible, I don't think it is cost effective to add that flat to the end of a ball end mill cutter for a machined base...Just my opinion... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-01-2011, 01:45 PM	#18
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	I'm thinking cast because of what appear to be mold marks ground smooth on the top surfaces on the inside and the relief cuts mentioned by GT are present. Regards, Doug Attached Thumbnails Last edited by silverknife; 05-01-2011 at 02:41 PM.

05-01-2011, 02:07 PM	#19
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Great pics! Right-click & Save! __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...