Not Luger but opinions are requested

berkmberk1 · 11-12-2014, 08:17 PM

I know you guys have much experience, not to mention class and good taste, so I need educated opinions. I'm looking at a holster stock for my C96. I've turned down others as likely fakes, but this one I'm not sure of. The interior is definitely old. The wood is obviously weathered, The wrist hardware looks to be hardly used/NOS/a really good copy. It fits well to the wood. The hinge plate dimensions appear correct. Safety relief cut in the lid is correct for a later model. The lid latch button is possibly a replacement. So my guess WOULD be authentic BUT.....the wood finish looks iffy. by that I mean German C96 stocks are all walnut, but I can't tell if this one is just not re-finished correctly OR is it a stain over something else. If it is, it would lead me to believe it could be a mix and match Chinese (good copy) with German parts????

Here is a pick of a section of stock. Any opinions on authentic - yay or nay?

alanint · 11-12-2014, 09:11 PM

A copy. The wood does not look European and the Mauser Banner is very crude..

berkmberk1 · 11-12-2014, 09:36 PM

Thats what I was thinking. Its definitely a better copy than the new ones out there. I was wondering if it might not be an "original copy"...a piece manufactured WAY back when the Chinese started using, and making their own.

The main body is very old/worn looking inside....well used, not like the new ones.....NEW. All the screws, lid spring, hinge hardware appears identical to parts I've see on authenticated pieces.

Its just this darn wood.......walnut is not light orange!

Sergio Natali · 11-13-2014, 03:11 AM

Probably a few more pictures not only of the Mauser banner would help a lot.
Doesn't look like walnut and the stain is a bit strange, the more I look at it the less is convincing me.
Still would look like a pretty good copy.

Sergio

alanint · 11-13-2014, 04:58 AM

Here at least is an authentic image for comparison. Your logo looks pretty close. It's just that wood that looks stained!

berkmberk1 · 11-13-2014, 08:22 AM

You really need to research and research some more when you start talking in the $500 range. Everyone I've looked at, so far, has rung alarm bells over the finishes.....glossy, obviously stained over something else, or both.

Oh well, at least the search is educational.........this one would be spot on if it were walnut....

DavidJayUden · 11-13-2014, 10:56 AM

There are some serious C96 guys over on Jan Stills forum. Might be a good idea to float it past them if you are uncertain.
dju

Sergio Natali · 11-13-2014, 11:08 AM

Michal

C96 had their own holster stocks, I bet that stock hasn't got any serial number marked on its metal part, what is it for, a Modell 1930 a Schnellferuer or what?

Sergio

berkmberk1 · 11-13-2014, 07:58 PM

Unknown. I am communicating via email. I asked, but no response yet. I want it for my wartime commercial. Little aspects indicate later model. such as the lid has one large routed out section for the safety, indicating later M30 manufacture. The flat spring in the lid looks short, possibly broken off. There appears to be a shallow routed spot in the corner where a full length spring would sit, like its supposed to. Hinge mounting is by all pan-head bolts. Finally, there is a three digit # on the wrist iron.

Its bugging me because all the details are correct.........except the flippin' wood doesn't make sense! $500 is a lot of money to spend and not be SURE!

saab-bob · 11-13-2014, 09:03 PM

Mike
If the stock is for a M30 model,it will have a larger beveled hole for the M30 broomhandle grip. This was part of the redesign for the M30 model. The grip area on your older commercial C96 will still fit. It will just fit a little looser.

Bob

berkmberk1 · 11-13-2014, 10:56 PM

Here is a pic of the lid. I had to manipulate it a bit.......it was quite dark. still is in a way.

alanint · 11-14-2014, 07:52 AM

Your photos of the interior clinches it for me. No Mauser product would have ever left the factory with such crude wood routing and lack of polish/finish to the wood edges. This is Pakistani or Asian junk.

Lugerdoc · 11-14-2014, 12:47 PM

Your spring in the lid looks correct, for a Chinese copy, which I believe your stock to be. th

berkmberk1 · 11-14-2014, 07:02 PM

I finally got an email back to my questions about the stock. He got it at an estate sale. It didn't come with a pistol. "but its very clean". Oh well......the search goes on........

alvin · 11-14-2014, 07:31 PM

Mauser's wood cut work is much better. Don't have 1930 stock at hand, but got a Schnell one, it's also "bannered", and it's the same period, so it's similar to standard 1930 in quality.

Compare, then, know.

-----

Another common problem with mass produced repro stock is this: it's made as a single product fitting all Mausers variations. So, its internal space is usually bigger than necessary. Put a gun inside, close the door, and shake it -- usually you can feel the gun is moving inside.

alvin · 11-24-2014, 10:43 PM

Just saw a repro sample with more pictures on gunbroker.com:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=454242389

It's a few percent better made, at least the wood cut is more smooth, but it's still a repro. If bidding on it, that stock should not be counted as a $500 item. It has a gun coming with it, but this gun is reblued, rebored, not a collector item either.

The only myth to me ... for this wonderful offer, why didn't the seller release the rig to the high bidder...

CAP Black · 11-27-2014, 03:14 PM

It looks like to me the time is not up yet.
Jack

alvin · 11-27-2014, 05:51 PM

Geez... Probably due to 7,63mm ammo is harder to come now.

Even Bolo in fine original finish cannot go $1800, and this one goes $1800 not reaching reserve! This world is upside down.

Bolo in original finish looks like this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=454506390

Postwar Bolo, or "Mauser 1922 Police Model" (like the one in above link), in original shape is not very hard to come. Hard to come is postwar Bolo with matching stock. Bolo grip is small and its stock grip opening is also small, kind of special.

USD raised in exchange rate these days. Strong $$.

Sergio Natali · 11-28-2014, 04:53 AM

Michael

You're quite right USD 500.00 is a lot to spend anyway but "not to be sure" is the point of it.
Original Mauser stocks here costs the equivalent of about USD 1220.00

Sergio

alvin · 11-28-2014, 07:57 AM

In extreme case, stock could be "free". Here is a story posted on an auction site, saying the seller (auction house's client) received a C96 from a widow some years ago, it's identified as a "Flatside" variation. What they paid the widow was not mentioned, probably trivial. After a month or two, surprisingly, the widow mailed them another package -- it's the original matching stock of the pistol. "I guess it might be useful to you".

This flatside, along with the matching stock, was re-sold 2-3, or 4 years ago, I cannot remember. Of course, not that widow's asking price anymore. The service is not free. So, our mission is simple, bypass middle man and find such a widow, then everything is all set

So far, I noticed waiting such a widow to appear is much harder than finding rare guns, probably due to internet is popular these days, most widows are not in dark anymore.

11-12-2014, 08:17 PM	#1
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	Not Luger but opinions are requested I know you guys have much experience, not to mention class and good taste, so I need educated opinions. I'm looking at a holster stock for my C96. I've turned down others as likely fakes, but this one I'm not sure of. The interior is definitely old. The wood is obviously weathered, The wrist hardware looks to be hardly used/NOS/a really good copy. It fits well to the wood. The hinge plate dimensions appear correct. Safety relief cut in the lid is correct for a later model. The lid latch button is possibly a replacement. So my guess WOULD be authentic BUT.....the wood finish looks iffy. by that I mean German C96 stocks are all walnut, but I can't tell if this one is just not re-finished correctly OR is it a stain over something else. If it is, it would lead me to believe it could be a mix and match Chinese (good copy) with German parts???? Here is a pick of a section of stock. Any opinions on authentic - yay or nay? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

11-12-2014, 09:36 PM	#3
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	Thats what I was thinking. Its definitely a better copy than the new ones out there. I was wondering if it might not be an "original copy"...a piece manufactured WAY back when the Chinese started using, and making their own. The main body is very old/worn looking inside....well used, not like the new ones.....NEW. All the screws, lid spring, hinge hardware appears identical to parts I've see on authenticated pieces. Its just this darn wood.......walnut is not light orange! __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

11-13-2014, 03:11 AM	#4
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Probably a few more pictures not only of the Mauser banner would help a lot. Doesn't look like walnut and the stain is a bit strange, the more I look at it the less is convincing me. Still would look like a pretty good copy. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-13-2014, 04:58 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Here at least is an authentic image for comparison. Your logo looks pretty close. It's just that wood that looks stained! Attached Images

11-13-2014, 08:22 AM	#6
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	You really need to research and research some more when you start talking in the $500 range. Everyone I've looked at, so far, has rung alarm bells over the finishes.....glossy, obviously stained over something else, or both. Oh well, at least the search is educational.........this one would be spot on if it were walnut.... __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

11-12-2014, 09:11 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	A copy. The wood does not look European and the Mauser Banner is very crude..

11-13-2014, 10:56 AM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	There are some serious C96 guys over on Jan Stills forum. Might be a good idea to float it past them if you are uncertain. dju

11-13-2014, 11:08 AM	#8
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Michal C96 had their own holster stocks, I bet that stock hasn't got any serial number marked on its metal part, what is it for, a Modell 1930 a Schnellferuer or what? Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-13-2014, 07:58 PM	#9
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	Unknown. I am communicating via email. I asked, but no response yet. I want it for my wartime commercial. Little aspects indicate later model. such as the lid has one large routed out section for the safety, indicating later M30 manufacture. The flat spring in the lid looks short, possibly broken off. There appears to be a shallow routed spot in the corner where a full length spring would sit, like its supposed to. Hinge mounting is by all pan-head bolts. Finally, there is a three digit # on the wrist iron. Its bugging me because all the details are correct.........except the flippin' wood doesn't make sense! $500 is a lot of money to spend and not be SURE! __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

11-13-2014, 09:03 PM	#10
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Mike If the stock is for a M30 model,it will have a larger beveled hole for the M30 broomhandle grip. This was part of the redesign for the M30 model. The grip area on your older commercial C96 will still fit. It will just fit a little looser. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

11-13-2014, 10:56 PM	#11
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	Here is a pic of the lid. I had to manipulate it a bit.......it was quite dark. still is in a way. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

11-14-2014, 07:52 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Your photos of the interior clinches it for me. No Mauser product would have ever left the factory with such crude wood routing and lack of polish/finish to the wood edges. This is Pakistani or Asian junk.

11-14-2014, 12:47 PM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Your spring in the lid looks correct, for a Chinese copy, which I believe your stock to be. th __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-14-2014, 07:02 PM	#14
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	I finally got an email back to my questions about the stock. He got it at an estate sale. It didn't come with a pistol. "but its very clean". Oh well......the search goes on........ __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

11-14-2014, 07:31 PM	#15
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Mauser's wood cut work is much better. Don't have 1930 stock at hand, but got a Schnell one, it's also "bannered", and it's the same period, so it's similar to standard 1930 in quality. Compare, then, know. ----- Another common problem with mass produced repro stock is this: it's made as a single product fitting all Mausers variations. So, its internal space is usually bigger than necessary. Put a gun inside, close the door, and shake it -- usually you can feel the gun is moving inside. Attached Thumbnails

11-24-2014, 10:43 PM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Just saw a repro sample with more pictures on gunbroker.com: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=454242389 It's a few percent better made, at least the wood cut is more smooth, but it's still a repro. If bidding on it, that stock should not be counted as a $500 item. It has a gun coming with it, but this gun is reblued, rebored, not a collector item either. The only myth to me ... for this wonderful offer, why didn't the seller release the rig to the high bidder...

11-27-2014, 03:14 PM	#17
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	It looks like to me the time is not up yet. Jack

11-27-2014, 05:51 PM	#18
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Geez... Probably due to 7,63mm ammo is harder to come now. Even Bolo in fine original finish cannot go $1800, and this one goes $1800 not reaching reserve! This world is upside down. Bolo in original finish looks like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=454506390 Postwar Bolo, or "Mauser 1922 Police Model" (like the one in above link), in original shape is not very hard to come. Hard to come is postwar Bolo with matching stock. Bolo grip is small and its stock grip opening is also small, kind of special. USD raised in exchange rate these days. Strong $$.

11-28-2014, 04:53 AM	#19
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Michael You're quite right USD 500.00 is a lot to spend anyway but "not to be sure" is the point of it. Original Mauser stocks here costs the equivalent of about USD 1220.00 Sergio Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-28-2014, 07:57 AM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	In extreme case, stock could be "free". Here is a story posted on an auction site, saying the seller (auction house's client) received a C96 from a widow some years ago, it's identified as a "Flatside" variation. What they paid the widow was not mentioned, probably trivial. After a month or two, surprisingly, the widow mailed them another package -- it's the original matching stock of the pistol. "I guess it might be useful to you". This flatside, along with the matching stock, was re-sold 2-3, or 4 years ago, I cannot remember. Of course, not that widow's asking price anymore. The service is not free. So, our mission is simple, bypass middle man and find such a widow, then everything is all set So far, I noticed waiting such a widow to appear is much harder than finding rare guns, probably due to internet is popular these days, most widows are not in dark anymore.