1915 LUGER

11-02-2001, 11:12 AM

I JUST BOUGHT THIS LUGER AND I DONT KNOW WHAT I HAVE GOT. HAS 1915 0N T0P. SERIAL # IS 6107 MARKED IN THE FRONT SIDE AND ON THE MAG.FOUR MARKINGS IN A ROW ON THE SIDE OF THE GUN, I GUESS GERMAN. HAS 07 ON EVERY PART EXCEPT BARREL.ON THE TOP OF THE GUN HAS DMV. THE BARREL HAS pTv AND BELOW THAT AN EAGLE I THINK.ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL HAS A 4 THEN BELOW 982. THE BARREL IS ABOUT 3 1/4 INCHES LONG. BEHIND THE SAFETY SAYS GESICHERT. IT IS ABOUT 99 % BLUED. ANY INFO WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS

Bart · 11-02-2001, 11:46 AM

Charles, as everyone here knows, I am very new to this hobby of collecting Lugers. But I can tell you this, you have a very rare Luger. I say this, with full confidence, as you indicated that the marking on top are "DMV"...my guess is that you have the first and only Luger made by the Department of Motor Vehicles!

-Bart

Marvin · 11-02-2001, 12:35 PM

Charles,

You have a WWI manufactured Luger made in 1915 by the Deutsche Waffen und Munitions. The scriptic letters on the middle toggle are intertwined "DWM". The 6107 is the serial number (look on the front of the frame, the muzzle pointed at you, and there is the 6107 number again with probably a scriptic letter below the serial number. ALWAYS use the letter as a part of the serial number. If you can't decipher the letter, look in the "Technical Information or General INformation" section of the Forum and there is a sheet to help identify the letter.)

To have an all matching pistol, the last 2 digits of the serial number (07) will be on most of the small parts, including the firing pin, holdopen, etc. inside. If the magazine is all matching, it will have the full serial number and the suffix.

Now, the "PTV over Eagle" is a Weimar Era stamp indicating the pistol was used by the Berlin Police Academy School. I am not sure what the 4 0ver 982 indicates. I have never seen this. The serial number should be on the underside of the barrel without the suffix letter, and another set of number like 8,92. The 4 markings on the right side of the receiver are the Government inspection and firing proof marks. Also, above the sideplate, is there a spring steel arm that goes on top of the sideplate and is rivited to the receiver?

The trigger, safety lever, takedown lever, magazine release button should have a yellowish color to it. If the Straw color has worn off, it may appear to be unblued steel. If these parts are blued, the pistol may have been reblued at some point.

Are there any import markings on the underside of the barrel, or some other obscure place? If this is not an import marked pistol, you have a nice pistol! I probably have left out a lot of info and I hope others will chime in, but the Technical and General Information sections of this Forum has a lot of good info.

Marvin

11-02-2001, 02:15 PM

MARVIN ON THE SERIAL NUMBER ON THE FRONT OF THE GUN IT HAS AN a BELOW THE 6107. ON TOP OF THE BARREL IT HAS AN EAGLE WITH A 6 UNDER IT. THE TRIGGER, TAKE DOWN LEVER, MAG RELEASE AND SAFETY LEVER ALL HAVE A YELLOW TINT. MARVIN THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME TO FILL ME IN.CHARLES

11-02-2001, 02:17 PM

MARVIN ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL IT HAS 8,82.

Marvin · 11-02-2001, 02:25 PM

Charles,

OK, now we have determined that your Luger is not an import pistol and it sounds all original. Just remember that the "a" suffix letter is part of the serial number and always list it with the numbers.

The Eagle with the 6 under it determines who did something to the pistol and unfortunantly I don't have any reference material with me and I hope someone can give you the meaning of the stamp. I may be wrong, but if my memory serves me correct, this stamp is a Simson Stamp. Simson was the only authorized Luger manufacturer after the Versaille Treaty instituted. Simson also did a lot of reworking to WWI Lugers. It looks like you do in fact have a nice Luger!

I have one Weimar reworked Luger with the "PTV" stamp and it does have the Police installed sear safety intact. Mine is a 1917 dated DWM with the 1920 Weimar property stamp over the 1917 ( a Double Date Luger). If you are interested enough, buy the book "Weimar Lugers" by Jan Still. I think they are approx. $60 and well worth the price. Matter of fact, if you order from Jan Still, he will autograph it for you. See the Links & Resources section for Jan's address. Jan also has "Imperial Lugers" (WWI Lugers), "Third Reich Lugers" (WWII Lugers). All are the same price. These are some of the best available to me on Lugers. Good Luck with your collecting!

Marvin

Milt Keller · 11-02-2001, 02:51 PM

Charles,

How about a pix of that gem of yours, I, as well as many others would like to see it. Did you pay a good price for it, and may I ask that price?

Milt Keller

Johnny Peppers · 11-02-2001, 03:31 PM

Charles,

Just a suggestion, but take your keyboard off caps lock and your posts will be much easier to read.

SteveM · 11-02-2001, 04:45 PM

Marvin,

E/6=Simson

Steve

11-02-2001, 06:40 PM

Your 1915 PO8 was rebarrel after WW1 by the Technical Police School with a new Simson made barrel. They may have also added the sear safety &/or magazine safties at the same time. The 4 over 983 that you reported under the barrel puzzles me. It might be a crown over N over 953. This would indicate and E.German rework of some kind in Sept of 1953. Tom h

11-02-2001, 08:58 PM

There is no 4 over 983, i thought it said that when i glanced at it on the bottom of the barrel. After talking to marvin i checked under the barrel closer there is a 4 in the middle of the barrel on the bottom and 8,82 where the bottom of the barrel meets the gun. thanks for all the info i payed 1000.00 was that to much?

bill m · 11-02-2001, 09:31 PM

Hi Marvin,

When you see a barrel with a PT or PTV on it, it means the barrel has been replaced for the police. These are all Simson reworks and will have a Simson eagle on the sight block and the left side of the barrel. On the bottom of the barrel will be a gauge mark and usually a 3 or a 4, but NO SERIAL number. It would be very unusual to find one with a serial numbered barrel.

Marvin · 11-03-2001, 07:28 AM

Bill,

My Double date with the PTV stamp does have the serial number located on the underside of the barrel and it is the original barrel. I would like to quote you from a couple of books concerning the PTV being a stamp from the Berlin Police Armory, but unfortunantly I don't have them with me. If anyone has a copy of Walter's "Luger" book, the stamp is noted there.

I have never heard about the 3 or 4 stamp being stamped on the replacement barrel by Simson. Do you have any reference that I can read about when I get back home. This is very interesting and I would like to get more details.

Marvin

Marvin · 11-03-2001, 07:38 AM

Tom,

Thanks for the info on the PTV Stamp being a Simson barrel, with the rebarreling being done at the Technical School. This answers my question that on my Double Date, the barrel is original with the Sear Safety being added and the stamp applied at the School.

Marvin

11-03-2001, 09:50 AM

Marvin, The eagle/6 is what tells me that this is a Simson made/inspected barrel. It's quite possile that the Police also used other manufactures (WW1 surplus) barrels in their PTV marked reworks.

Dok · 11-03-2001, 06:35 PM

you'll go a long way on this forum!

11-02-2001, 11:12 AM	#1
CHARLES FUNDERBURG Guest Posts: n/a	1915 LUGER I JUST BOUGHT THIS LUGER AND I DONT KNOW WHAT I HAVE GOT. HAS 1915 0N T0P. SERIAL # IS 6107 MARKED IN THE FRONT SIDE AND ON THE MAG.FOUR MARKINGS IN A ROW ON THE SIDE OF THE GUN, I GUESS GERMAN. HAS 07 ON EVERY PART EXCEPT BARREL.ON THE TOP OF THE GUN HAS DMV. THE BARREL HAS pTv AND BELOW THAT AN EAGLE I THINK.ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL HAS A 4 THEN BELOW 982. THE BARREL IS ABOUT 3 1/4 INCHES LONG. BEHIND THE SAFETY SAYS GESICHERT. IT IS ABOUT 99 % BLUED. ANY INFO WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS

11-02-2001, 11:46 AM	#2
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1915 LUGER Charles, as everyone here knows, I am very new to this hobby of collecting Lugers. But I can tell you this, you have a very rare Luger. I say this, with full confidence, as you indicated that the marking on top are "DMV"...my guess is that you have the first and only Luger made by the Department of Motor Vehicles! -Bart

11-02-2001, 12:35 PM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1915 LUGER Charles, You have a WWI manufactured Luger made in 1915 by the Deutsche Waffen und Munitions. The scriptic letters on the middle toggle are intertwined "DWM". The 6107 is the serial number (look on the front of the frame, the muzzle pointed at you, and there is the 6107 number again with probably a scriptic letter below the serial number. ALWAYS use the letter as a part of the serial number. If you can't decipher the letter, look in the "Technical Information or General INformation" section of the Forum and there is a sheet to help identify the letter.) To have an all matching pistol, the last 2 digits of the serial number (07) will be on most of the small parts, including the firing pin, holdopen, etc. inside. If the magazine is all matching, it will have the full serial number and the suffix. Now, the "PTV over Eagle" is a Weimar Era stamp indicating the pistol was used by the Berlin Police Academy School. I am not sure what the 4 0ver 982 indicates. I have never seen this. The serial number should be on the underside of the barrel without the suffix letter, and another set of number like 8,92. The 4 markings on the right side of the receiver are the Government inspection and firing proof marks. Also, above the sideplate, is there a spring steel arm that goes on top of the sideplate and is rivited to the receiver? The trigger, safety lever, takedown lever, magazine release button should have a yellowish color to it. If the Straw color has worn off, it may appear to be unblued steel. If these parts are blued, the pistol may have been reblued at some point. Are there any import markings on the underside of the barrel, or some other obscure place? If this is not an import marked pistol, you have a nice pistol! I probably have left out a lot of info and I hope others will chime in, but the Technical and General Information sections of this Forum has a lot of good info. Marvin

11-02-2001, 02:15 PM	#4
CHARLES FUNDERBURG Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 1915 LUGER MARVIN ON THE SERIAL NUMBER ON THE FRONT OF THE GUN IT HAS AN a BELOW THE 6107. ON TOP OF THE BARREL IT HAS AN EAGLE WITH A 6 UNDER IT. THE TRIGGER, TAKE DOWN LEVER, MAG RELEASE AND SAFETY LEVER ALL HAVE A YELLOW TINT. MARVIN THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME TO FILL ME IN.CHARLES

11-02-2001, 02:17 PM	#5
CHARLES FUNDERBURG Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 1915 LUGER MARVIN ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL IT HAS 8,82.

11-02-2001, 02:25 PM	#6
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1915 LUGER Charles, OK, now we have determined that your Luger is not an import pistol and it sounds all original. Just remember that the "a" suffix letter is part of the serial number and always list it with the numbers. The Eagle with the 6 under it determines who did something to the pistol and unfortunantly I don't have any reference material with me and I hope someone can give you the meaning of the stamp. I may be wrong, but if my memory serves me correct, this stamp is a Simson Stamp. Simson was the only authorized Luger manufacturer after the Versaille Treaty instituted. Simson also did a lot of reworking to WWI Lugers. It looks like you do in fact have a nice Luger! I have one Weimar reworked Luger with the "PTV" stamp and it does have the Police installed sear safety intact. Mine is a 1917 dated DWM with the 1920 Weimar property stamp over the 1917 ( a Double Date Luger). If you are interested enough, buy the book "Weimar Lugers" by Jan Still. I think they are approx. $60 and well worth the price. Matter of fact, if you order from Jan Still, he will autograph it for you. See the Links & Resources section for Jan's address. Jan also has "Imperial Lugers" (WWI Lugers), "Third Reich Lugers" (WWII Lugers). All are the same price. These are some of the best available to me on Lugers. Good Luck with your collecting! Marvin

11-02-2001, 02:51 PM	#7
Milt Keller User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 191 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 1915 LUGER Charles, How about a pix of that gem of yours, I, as well as many others would like to see it. Did you pay a good price for it, and may I ask that price? Milt Keller

11-02-2001, 03:31 PM	#8
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 1915 LUGER Charles, Just a suggestion, but take your keyboard off caps lock and your posts will be much easier to read.

11-02-2001, 04:45 PM	#9
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Re: 1915 LUGER Marvin, E/6=Simson Steve

11-02-2001, 06:40 PM	#10
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Here's the word Funderburg. Your 1915 PO8 was rebarrel after WW1 by the Technical Police School with a new Simson made barrel. They may have also added the sear safety &/or magazine safties at the same time. The 4 over 983 that you reported under the barrel puzzles me. It might be a crown over N over 953. This would indicate and E.German rework of some kind in Sept of 1953. Tom h

11-02-2001, 08:58 PM	#11
CHARLES FUNDERBURG Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Here's the word Funderburg. There is no 4 over 983, i thought it said that when i glanced at it on the bottom of the barrel. After talking to marvin i checked under the barrel closer there is a 4 in the middle of the barrel on the bottom and 8,82 where the bottom of the barrel meets the gun. thanks for all the info i payed 1000.00 was that to much?

11-02-2001, 09:31 PM	#12
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Barrel Serial Numbers Hi Marvin, When you see a barrel with a PT or PTV on it, it means the barrel has been replaced for the police. These are all Simson reworks and will have a Simson eagle on the sight block and the left side of the barrel. On the bottom of the barrel will be a gauge mark and usually a 3 or a 4, but NO SERIAL number. It would be very unusual to find one with a serial numbered barrel.

11-03-2001, 07:28 AM	#13
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Barrel Serial Numbers Bill, My Double date with the PTV stamp does have the serial number located on the underside of the barrel and it is the original barrel. I would like to quote you from a couple of books concerning the PTV being a stamp from the Berlin Police Armory, but unfortunantly I don't have them with me. If anyone has a copy of Walter's "Luger" book, the stamp is noted there. I have never heard about the 3 or 4 stamp being stamped on the replacement barrel by Simson. Do you have any reference that I can read about when I get back home. This is very interesting and I would like to get more details. Marvin

11-03-2001, 07:38 AM	#14
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Here's the word Funderburg. Tom, Thanks for the info on the PTV Stamp being a Simson barrel, with the rebarreling being done at the Technical School. This answers my question that on my Double Date, the barrel is original with the Sear Safety being added and the stamp applied at the School. Marvin

11-03-2001, 09:50 AM	#15
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Here's the word Funderburg. Marvin, The eagle/6 is what tells me that this is a Simson made/inspected barrel. It's quite possile that the Police also used other manufactures (WW1 surplus) barrels in their PTV marked reworks.

11-03-2001, 06:35 PM	#16
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I like that, a sense of humour.... you'll go a long way on this forum!