1909 dwm

jagervw · 10-26-2013, 12:44 PM

Just picked up this DWM; my first P08. Very happy...

Sergio Natali · 10-26-2013, 03:04 PM

Congratulations! I think t's a good start!

gunbugs · 10-26-2013, 06:17 PM

Looks like a handsome example.

Maestro · 10-26-2013, 08:29 PM

did it come with any accessories?

Arizona Slim · 10-26-2013, 08:33 PM

Congratulations Mark, I agree wholeheartedly with Sergio and Doug, a very nice first acquisition, it appears to be a 1920 Commercial from your photos and a very nice example.

Lon

MFC · 10-26-2013, 11:35 PM

Looks like a very nice 1908 Commercial to me.

jagervw · 10-27-2013, 02:01 AM

No accessories to this one; so I'm searching for a holster and another magazine. I have some other thoughts too.

wlyon · 10-27-2013, 12:08 PM

Not being versed in commercials what distinguishes a 1920 commercial from a 1908 commercial except serial numbers ? Bill

Ron Wood · 10-27-2013, 12:31 PM

A 1908 has the "lazy" Crown/N commercial proof in the left side of the receiver and has no stock lug.

MFC · 10-28-2013, 12:47 AM

Another difference, which can't be seen in the pictures, is all 08 Commercials are 9mm. Most all 1920 Commercials/Alphabet commercials are 30 cal.

Lyn Islaub · 10-28-2013, 10:21 PM

Bill/Ron,
It was my understanding that the 1908 pistols had a "lazy" Crown U proof versus the "lazy" Crown N or vertical Crown N proofs on the 1920/23 commercial P-08s.
Lyn

Ron Wood · 10-28-2013, 11:55 PM

Lyn,
You may be thinking of the earlier Crown/B, Crown/U, Crown/G commercial proofs found on Lugers up until early Model 1906 Lugers. The “U” represents “Untersuchung” or inspection, the “G” represents “Gezogen” or rifled. The Crown/B indicates that the gun was tested with an overpressure load in accordance with the German proof law of 1892 (or was it 1891, I forget?!). This proof test was changed to the “lazy” Crown/N nitro proof in 1906. The vertical Crown/N was introduced in 1920.

Edit: The info on the "lazy" Crown/N is incorrect...see post #14 below. Sorry.

Lyn Islaub · 10-29-2013, 12:34 AM

Very interesting. These early DWM pistols are not my area of expertise, but I have what I thought to be a 1908 Commercial S/N 43898, that is clearly "BUG" proofed. No Eagle, stock lug or grip safety and Dwight Gruber has recorded "BUG" proofed 1908s through the 48,000 range. Dwight also has some Crown N proofed pistols listed in these ranges too, so why would have 1908 series P-08s have had one or the other proof types? Thx for helping me better understand this Ron, as you know these early pistols we'll.
Lyn

Ron Wood · 10-29-2013, 09:08 AM

Lyn,
You are correct. I should know better than posting late in the evening after a 12 hour drive!

The "lazy" Crown/N appeared with the M1908, not the M1906 and probably, as Dwight notes in his data base, around 1912. The production of the 1908 Commercial continued until the 1913/14 Commercials with the stock lug were introduced at somewhere around the 7XXXX range. So you can see that both types of proof marks were used during the M1908 production and probably with some overlap.

Lyn Islaub · 10-29-2013, 01:08 PM

Sorry to keep you up too late, but certainly appreciate you passing on your thoughts.
Lyn

cirelaw · 10-29-2013, 02:24 PM

Every collection starts with one. Thats a nice one~~ Eric

K.Wilhelm · 10-29-2013, 03:49 PM

I think I'll stick with WWI & later- the early stuff is way too confusing! But thanks, guys, for doing your best to educate this poor, confused soul.

Bill

jagervw · 11-03-2013, 08:36 PM

I tried to work out the rates given the period; these notes should have covered the purchase at the time...RM 400.

Dwight Gruber · 11-04-2013, 01:07 AM

Could you please report the serial number of this pistol for the Commercial database? Thanks ver much.

--Dwight

jagervw · 11-04-2013, 10:19 PM

Dwight, I sent you an PM/e-mail in the format you specified about a 2 weeks ago; did you not receive it?

10-26-2013, 03:04 PM	#2
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Congratulations! I think t's a good start! __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

10-26-2013, 11:35 PM	#6
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Looks like a very nice 1908 Commercial to me. __________________ Mike C.

10-27-2013, 12:08 PM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,617 Thanks: 3,141 Thanked 2,523 Times in 940 Posts	Not being versed in commercials what distinguishes a 1920 commercial from a 1908 commercial except serial numbers ? Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-27-2013, 12:31 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,096 Times in 1,676 Posts	A 1908 has the "lazy" Crown/N commercial proof in the left side of the receiver and has no stock lug. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-28-2013, 12:47 AM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Another difference, which can't be seen in the pictures, is all 08 Commercials are 9mm. Most all 1920 Commercials/Alphabet commercials are 30 cal. __________________ Mike C.

10-26-2013, 12:44 PM	#1
jagervw User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: S. Florida Posts: 47 Thanks: 52 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	1909 dwm Just picked up this DWM; my first P08. Very happy... Attached Thumbnails

10-26-2013, 06:17 PM	#3
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 636 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,141 Times in 379 Posts	Looks like a handsome example.

10-26-2013, 08:29 PM	#4
Maestro User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: "Where the streets have no names" Posts: 504 Thanks: 192 Thanked 200 Times in 136 Posts	did it come with any accessories?

10-26-2013, 08:33 PM	#5
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Congratulations Mark, I agree wholeheartedly with Sergio and Doug, a very nice first acquisition, it appears to be a 1920 Commercial from your photos and a very nice example. Lon

10-27-2013, 02:01 AM	#7
jagervw User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: S. Florida Posts: 47 Thanks: 52 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	No accessories to this one; so I'm searching for a holster and another magazine. I have some other thoughts too.

10-28-2013, 10:21 PM	#11
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Bill/Ron, It was my understanding that the 1908 pistols had a "lazy" Crown U proof versus the "lazy" Crown N or vertical Crown N proofs on the 1920/23 commercial P-08s. Lyn

10-28-2013, 11:55 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,096 Times in 1,676 Posts	Lyn, You may be thinking of the earlier Crown/B, Crown/U, Crown/G commercial proofs found on Lugers up until early Model 1906 Lugers. The “U” represents “Untersuchung” or inspection, the “G” represents “Gezogen” or rifled. The Crown/B indicates that the gun was tested with an overpressure load in accordance with the German proof law of 1892 (or was it 1891, I forget?!). This proof test was changed to the “lazy” Crown/N nitro proof in 1906. The vertical Crown/N was introduced in 1920. Edit: The info on the "lazy" Crown/N is incorrect...see post #14 below. Sorry. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 10-29-2013 at 09:10 AM.

10-29-2013, 12:34 AM	#13
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Very interesting. These early DWM pistols are not my area of expertise, but I have what I thought to be a 1908 Commercial S/N 43898, that is clearly "BUG" proofed. No Eagle, stock lug or grip safety and Dwight Gruber has recorded "BUG" proofed 1908s through the 48,000 range. Dwight also has some Crown N proofed pistols listed in these ranges too, so why would have 1908 series P-08s have had one or the other proof types? Thx for helping me better understand this Ron, as you know these early pistols we'll. Lyn

10-29-2013, 09:08 AM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,096 Times in 1,676 Posts	Lyn, You are correct. I should know better than posting late in the evening after a 12 hour drive! The "lazy" Crown/N appeared with the M1908, not the M1906 and probably, as Dwight notes in his data base, around 1912. The production of the 1908 Commercial continued until the 1913/14 Commercials with the stock lug were introduced at somewhere around the 7XXXX range. So you can see that both types of proof marks were used during the M1908 production and probably with some overlap. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-29-2013, 01:08 PM	#15
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Sorry to keep you up too late, but certainly appreciate you passing on your thoughts. Lyn

10-29-2013, 02:24 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Every collection starts with one. Thats a nice one~~ Eric

10-29-2013, 03:49 PM	#17
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	Confusing! I think I'll stick with WWI & later- the early stuff is way too confusing! But thanks, guys, for doing your best to educate this poor, confused soul. Bill __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

11-03-2013, 08:36 PM	#18
jagervw User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: S. Florida Posts: 47 Thanks: 52 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	I tried to work out the rates given the period; these notes should have covered the purchase at the time...RM 400. Attached Thumbnails

11-04-2013, 01:07 AM	#19
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Could you please report the serial number of this pistol for the Commercial database? Thanks ver much. --Dwight

11-04-2013, 10:19 PM	#20
jagervw User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: S. Florida Posts: 47 Thanks: 52 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Dwight, I sent you an PM/e-mail in the format you specified about a 2 weeks ago; did you not receive it?