"42 byf"

intelliprop · 05-12-2008, 10:43 AM

This p.o8 has "42" on the top of the receiver, "byf" and 27 on top of the toggle. Other markings: what looks like three "eagles", rt side of receiver, and one more on the barrel, just forward of the three on the recever, the first two of which have "135" below. On the opposite side of the receiver is "527" which also appears on the frame in front of the trigger and underneath the barrell. The numeral "27" appears on the side of the release pin, ejector, and frame (inside), and safety. Another symbol, and inverted "y" appears below the "527" on the front of the trigger guard. Inside of the frame, in a bored out region, in front of the trigger is a "u", with the numeral "1" and "0" aside and above the "u". No serial numbers anywhere. This pistol is like new, blued complete, no pits or cracks anywhere. Can anyone tell from this who manufactured it, about when, and what military unit it may have been issued to? Even more, what soldier carried it?

Ron Smith · 05-12-2008, 10:58 AM

Jack,

Welcome to the forum. Your Luger was made by Mauser (byf code) in 1942. The serial number is 527 probably with an h ( inverted y ?) suffix which indicates the serial number block. The 27 on the small parts are the last two numbers of the SN indicating a "matched" gun. Lugers were made 10,000 to a letter block. The following year they started over with a different letter.

The Eagle 135 marks on the right side are Mauser acceptance and proof marks. The letters inside are just inspectors marks, used to show that it was inspected for flaws.

Unit marking ceased in 1937, so there's not much chance of identifying the unit it was issued to. Any records have long since been either destroyed or lost.

41 byf and 42 byf Lugers are referred to as "Black Widows". So tagged by a U.S. dealer as a marketing ploy, since some have black grips. Does your Luger have black bakelite grips or wood? Either is correct, however there are fake black grips on the market.

Ron

intelliprop · 05-12-2008, 06:47 PM

Ron:

Thanks for that very concise and able summary. The grips are wood.
One day I was thinking I'd be in Germany and I'd look up the next of kin of the soldier and "return his personal piece". Maybe that wasn't such a good idea, come to think of it.

Best regards;

jack

Ron Wood · 05-12-2008, 08:01 PM

Jack,
Bless your heart. That is a noble thought, but it truly is totally impossible. Enjoy your ownership and think good thoughts about the soldier that carried it...he was a soldier and doing his job in spite of the fact that his commander-in-chief was a monster.

Edward Tinker · 05-12-2008, 09:08 PM

Jack, welcome to the forum. "Tracing" back to a soldier is almost impossible unless a vet captured it and the "story" can be verified

Ed

intelliprop · 05-13-2008, 08:42 AM

Dear Ed & Ron: Thanks for the thoughts and advice. About the German soldier's piece, I inherited from my father. He was in Patton's tank corps. At the "Battle of the Bulge" he ambushed a German fleeing staff car. That's all hearsay. My father is dead. So too his tank crew, I'd assume. No way of verifying. War time chaos. Anything could have happened. But the German soldier's next of kin probably have a better claim to "owning it" as part of his estate than I do. I was thinking they may want it. That may be wrong. A stigma would attach to a Waffen SS Officer's piece. Some things are better left alone.

Ron Smith · 05-13-2008, 08:54 AM

Jack,

Firearms ownership in Germany is very stringent. It's very probable that , either they couldn't own it, or wouldn't want to.

Also, getting it imported back into Germany would be very costly and time consuming. Things are often best, left as they are.

Ron

intelliprop · 05-13-2008, 09:02 AM

Ron:

Good advice!

Edward Tinker · 05-13-2008, 09:04 AM

sound advice Ron. In addition and you see it here in the America's, that not always is the family interested in a piece of history, especially a "firearm". I personally never push a family member to "keep it in the family"; as they obviously have little interest in it, and I have keen interest in historical items. Many folks and family members simply do not care about a gun; thye might keep uncle Joes flight jacket or the like, or nothing, but that is their family decision.

I figure that I can guarantee a good home, either with me or another dedicated collector. Better to go that route than a police turn in or sold at a pawn shop for $200....

Ed

George Anderson · 05-13-2008, 09:05 AM

Jack, at the time your father acquired that pistol it was the property of the German Army not the soldier who carried it. Thanks to the sacrifices and efforts of men like your father they lost and we won. As his heir you are the rightful owner of that Luger.

intelliprop · 05-13-2008, 09:14 AM

George and Ed:

Thanks for this, as I'm sure you're both correct.

05-12-2008, 10:43 AM	#1
intelliprop User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"42 byf" This p.o8 has "42" on the top of the receiver, "byf" and 27 on top of the toggle. Other markings: what looks like three "eagles", rt side of receiver, and one more on the barrel, just forward of the three on the recever, the first two of which have "135" below. On the opposite side of the receiver is "527" which also appears on the frame in front of the trigger and underneath the barrell. The numeral "27" appears on the side of the release pin, ejector, and frame (inside), and safety. Another symbol, and inverted "y" appears below the "527" on the front of the trigger guard. Inside of the frame, in a bored out region, in front of the trigger is a "u", with the numeral "1" and "0" aside and above the "u". No serial numbers anywhere. This pistol is like new, blued complete, no pits or cracks anywhere. Can anyone tell from this who manufactured it, about when, and what military unit it may have been issued to? Even more, what soldier carried it?

05-12-2008, 10:58 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jack, Welcome to the forum. Your Luger was made by Mauser (byf code) in 1942. The serial number is 527 probably with an h ( inverted y ?) suffix which indicates the serial number block. The 27 on the small parts are the last two numbers of the SN indicating a "matched" gun. Lugers were made 10,000 to a letter block. The following year they started over with a different letter. The Eagle 135 marks on the right side are Mauser acceptance and proof marks. The letters inside are just inspectors marks, used to show that it was inspected for flaws. Unit marking ceased in 1937, so there's not much chance of identifying the unit it was issued to. Any records have long since been either destroyed or lost. 41 byf and 42 byf Lugers are referred to as "Black Widows". So tagged by a U.S. dealer as a marketing ploy, since some have black grips. Does your Luger have black bakelite grips or wood? Either is correct, however there are fake black grips on the market. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-12-2008, 06:47 PM	#3
intelliprop User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"42 byf" Ron: Thanks for that very concise and able summary. The grips are wood. One day I was thinking I'd be in Germany and I'd look up the next of kin of the soldier and "return his personal piece". Maybe that wasn't such a good idea, come to think of it. Best regards; jack

05-12-2008, 08:01 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Jack, Bless your heart. That is a noble thought, but it truly is totally impossible. Enjoy your ownership and think good thoughts about the soldier that carried it...he was a soldier and doing his job in spite of the fact that his commander-in-chief was a monster. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-12-2008, 09:08 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Jack, welcome to the forum. "Tracing" back to a soldier is almost impossible unless a vet captured it and the "story" can be verified Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-13-2008, 08:42 AM	#6
intelliprop User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dear Ed & Ron: Thanks for the thoughts and advice. About the German soldier's piece, I inherited from my father. He was in Patton's tank corps. At the "Battle of the Bulge" he ambushed a German fleeing staff car. That's all hearsay. My father is dead. So too his tank crew, I'd assume. No way of verifying. War time chaos. Anything could have happened. But the German soldier's next of kin probably have a better claim to "owning it" as part of his estate than I do. I was thinking they may want it. That may be wrong. A stigma would attach to a Waffen SS Officer's piece. Some things are better left alone.

05-13-2008, 08:54 AM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jack, Firearms ownership in Germany is very stringent. It's very probable that , either they couldn't own it, or wouldn't want to. Also, getting it imported back into Germany would be very costly and time consuming. Things are often best, left as they are. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-13-2008, 09:02 AM	#8
intelliprop User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron: Good advice!

05-13-2008, 09:04 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	sound advice Ron. In addition and you see it here in the America's, that not always is the family interested in a piece of history, especially a "firearm". I personally never push a family member to "keep it in the family"; as they obviously have little interest in it, and I have keen interest in historical items. Many folks and family members simply do not care about a gun; thye might keep uncle Joes flight jacket or the like, or nothing, but that is their family decision. I figure that I can guarantee a good home, either with me or another dedicated collector. Better to go that route than a police turn in or sold at a pawn shop for $200.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-13-2008, 09:05 AM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Jack, at the time your father acquired that pistol it was the property of the German Army not the soldier who carried it. Thanks to the sacrifices and efforts of men like your father they lost and we won. As his heir you are the rightful owner of that Luger.

05-13-2008, 09:14 AM	#11
intelliprop User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	George and Ed: Thanks for this, as I'm sure you're both correct.