Comments on my first luger.

Len · 12-12-2003, 04:56 PM

Can anyone tell me a little about this gun. I picked up this shooter and would appreciate any feedback from forum members. I believe its been reblued. Its marked DWM 1918 serial numbers I can see match...not sure about the trigger, it seems newer. Also it has been rebarreled to .30. What are your thought on rebarreling to 9mm. .30 caliber are hard to get and costly. I would also like to know if anyone can explain the mark on the left side of the toggle...very faint
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

and the markings on the righ side of the breech seam simlar to those shown on Proof 2 (#15)
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Some other images that might help are:

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00248.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00248.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00230.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00230.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00250.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00250.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Dwight Gruber · 12-12-2003, 05:35 PM

Len,

Your Luger is an Imperial army Luger, manufactured in 1918. Many of these pistols were modified for commercial sale after WWI, by replacing the barrel with one 3 3/4" long, chambered in .30 Luger, as per the requirements ofthe Treaty of Versailles.

It would be useful to see any marks which appear on the barrel, to see if it has a post-war German proof--this would indicate that it was modified for German internal sales. Does the pistol say Germany or Made In Germany anywhere? This would mean that it was destined for sale outside of Germany, most likely the US.

From the photographs it appears that there are some areas of pitting on this gun, observe them very closely. If they have been blued over the gun is definitely reblued, if they have not it is very possible the gun retains its original finish. It is not possible to tell this from the photograph. If it is a reblue it is a very good one, as the pistol does not appear to have been buffed.

Look for the serial number or other markings on the trigger.

The marking on the breechblock ("left side of the toggle")is an Imperial power-proof, indicating that the weapon has passed the test of successfully firing two over-pressure proof rounds during its manufacture.

Rebarrelling to 9mm is certainly a possibility. If the barrel as it is has the markings I noted above, replacing it will reduce this Luger's authenticity by that much. There are members of this Forum who are qualified and experienced Lugersmiths who can help you with this process.

--Dwight

Doubs · 12-12-2003, 11:21 PM

Judging by the metal I see in the close-up shots of the left side, I'd say the gun has not been refinished. There is no evidence of buffing or polishing of the metal... no rounded corners or blurred lines and the original milling lines are obvious. Just my opinion.

Herb · 12-13-2003, 01:46 PM

Len, if the .30 cal barrel has the same serial # as the frame I'd leave it alone as rebarreling it would certainly reduce it's value, on the other hand if it has no number or a non-matching number then rebarrleling it would be the way to go.

Len · 12-13-2003, 04:24 PM

Dwight, Doubs and Herb....thanks for you quick replies.

To answer some of your questions...

..most of the deeper pits have signs of red rust.
..placing a cleaning rod down the bore against the bolt, the barrel measures 3.75 inches.
..Pistol does not say "Made in Germany" anywhere.
..I'm afraid to dismantel the trigger plate as I have never done that and am somewhat of a klutz!
..There are no markings or any stamps or writing of any kind on the barrel, except for the index marks which line up perfectly.
..The front of the front site base is stamped with an O then a relative large space then either a D or a P.

Dwight Gruber · 12-13-2003, 07:02 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Len:
..most of the deeper pits have signs of red rust...Pistol does not say "Made in Germany" anywhere...There are no markings or any stamps or writing of any kind on the barrel...I'm afraid to dismantel the trigger plate as I have never done that and am somewhat of a klutz!<hr /></blockquote>Len,

Knowing now about the rust in the pits, from the photos it looks like you have essentially a very nice, original-finish Luger. Its too bad about the barrel.

Since the barrel has no markings it was probably rebarrelled in the US at some point in its life--the United States has no national proof law. In my opinion you can confidently have this gun rebarrelled to 9mm.

You needn't feel klutzlike about field stripping your Luger. It is a simple and fairly foolproof procedure, and if (as you imply) you are going to be shooting this gun, it is something you will need to master.

Red rust in the pits indicates that this rust is still active, and you should take steps to neutralize and remove it. A search through the Luger Forum will get y0ou methods for doing this.

--Dwight

Len · 12-13-2003, 09:50 PM

Hey! Thanks to all you guys....what a great group!

jamese · 12-14-2003, 07:07 AM

Maybe itÃ¢??s my eyes or something that can be easily explained, but I noticed an unusual inspector stamp on the first letter. I have never seen a letter with this extra appendage before and canÃ¢??t seem to find in my books.

Anyone have any ideas ?

Jim

Herb · 12-14-2003, 06:11 PM

Jamese, I can't find anything on it either, except for that little appendage those are one of the correct combinations of stamps for the 1918 DWM. It also appears to actually be a part of the stamping and not an accidental 'ding' that may have happened sometime in it's existance. Perhaps you have uncovered another one of those strange items that pop up from time to time. Great observation, I don't think there is anything wrong with your eyes.

trigger643 · 12-14-2003, 09:05 PM

To my eyes it looks like the first strike was high, to the left and crooked. The appendage appears to me to be the underline of the same proof, the little lines just above it seem to correspond with the heavier, correct and level strike from which it appears to grow out of

Len · 12-15-2003, 12:14 PM

I think trigger643 might have the answer. Upon examination with a magnifiy glass, the odd bar on the left seems to be overstruck by the correct stamp.

Good dective work you guy's....thanks much!

12-13-2003, 01:46 PM	#4
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Len, if the .30 cal barrel has the same serial # as the frame I'd leave it alone as rebarreling it would certainly reduce it's value, on the other hand if it has no number or a non-matching number then rebarrleling it would be the way to go. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-13-2003, 07:02 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Len: <strong>..most of the deeper pits have signs of red rust...Pistol does not say "Made in Germany" anywhere...There are no markings or any stamps or writing of any kind on the barrel...I'm afraid to dismantel the trigger plate as I have never done that and am somewhat of a klutz!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Len, Knowing now about the rust in the pits, from the photos it looks like you have essentially a very nice, original-finish Luger. Its too bad about the barrel. Since the barrel has no markings it was probably rebarrelled in the US at some point in its life--the United States has no national proof law. In my opinion you can confidently have this gun rebarrelled to 9mm. You needn't feel klutzlike about field stripping your Luger. It is a simple and fairly foolproof procedure, and if (as you imply) you are going to be shooting this gun, it is something you will need to master. Red rust in the pits indicates that this rust is still active, and you should take steps to neutralize and remove it. A search through the Luger Forum will get y0ou methods for doing this. --Dwight

12-14-2003, 07:07 AM	#8
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Maybe itÃ¢??s my eyes or something that can be easily explained, but I noticed an unusual inspector stamp on the first letter. I have never seen a letter with this extra appendage before and canÃ¢??t seem to find in my books. Anyone have any ideas ? Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

12-14-2003, 06:11 PM	#9
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jamese, I can't find anything on it either, except for that little appendage those are one of the correct combinations of stamps for the 1918 DWM. It also appears to actually be a part of the stamping and not an accidental 'ding' that may have happened sometime in it's existance. Perhaps you have uncovered another one of those strange items that pop up from time to time. Great observation, I don't think there is anything wrong with your eyes. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-14-2003, 09:05 PM	#10
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	To my eyes it looks like the first strike was high, to the left and crooked. The appendage appears to me to be the underline of the same proof, the little lines just above it seem to correspond with the heavier, correct and level strike from which it appears to grow out of __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

12-12-2003, 04:56 PM	#1
Len User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sonoma, California Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Comments on my first luger. Can anyone tell me a little about this gun. I picked up this shooter and would appreciate any feedback from forum members. I believe its been reblued. Its marked DWM 1918 serial numbers I can see match...not sure about the trigger, it seems newer. Also it has been rebarreled to .30. What are your thought on rebarreling to 9mm. .30 caliber are hard to get and costly. I would also like to know if anyone can explain the mark on the left side of the toggle...very faint <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> and the markings on the righ side of the breech seam simlar to those shown on Proof 2 (#15) <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00237.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Some other images that might help are: <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00248.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00248.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00230.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00230.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00250.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00250.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

12-12-2003, 05:35 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Len, Your Luger is an Imperial army Luger, manufactured in 1918. Many of these pistols were modified for commercial sale after WWI, by replacing the barrel with one 3 3/4" long, chambered in .30 Luger, as per the requirements ofthe Treaty of Versailles. It would be useful to see any marks which appear on the barrel, to see if it has a post-war German proof--this would indicate that it was modified for German internal sales. Does the pistol say Germany or Made In Germany anywhere? This would mean that it was destined for sale outside of Germany, most likely the US. From the photographs it appears that there are some areas of pitting on this gun, observe them very closely. If they have been blued over the gun is definitely reblued, if they have not it is very possible the gun retains its original finish. It is not possible to tell this from the photograph. If it is a reblue it is a very good one, as the pistol does not appear to have been buffed. Look for the serial number or other markings on the trigger. The marking on the breechblock ("left side of the toggle")is an Imperial power-proof, indicating that the weapon has passed the test of successfully firing two over-pressure proof rounds during its manufacture. Rebarrelling to 9mm is certainly a possibility. If the barrel as it is has the markings I noted above, replacing it will reduce this Luger's authenticity by that much. There are members of this Forum who are qualified and experienced Lugersmiths who can help you with this process. --Dwight

12-12-2003, 11:21 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 771 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	Judging by the metal I see in the close-up shots of the left side, I'd say the gun has not been refinished. There is no evidence of buffing or polishing of the metal... no rounded corners or blurred lines and the original milling lines are obvious. Just my opinion.

12-13-2003, 04:24 PM	#5
Len User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sonoma, California Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, Doubs and Herb....thanks for you quick replies. To answer some of your questions... ..most of the deeper pits have signs of red rust. ..placing a cleaning rod down the bore against the bolt, the barrel measures 3.75 inches. ..Pistol does not say "Made in Germany" anywhere. ..I'm afraid to dismantel the trigger plate as I have never done that and am somewhat of a klutz! ..There are no markings or any stamps or writing of any kind on the barrel, except for the index marks which line up perfectly. ..The front of the front site base is stamped with an O then a relative large space then either a D or a P.

12-13-2003, 09:50 PM	#7
Len User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sonoma, California Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey! Thanks to all you guys....what a great group!

12-15-2003, 12:14 PM	#11
Len User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sonoma, California Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think trigger643 might have the answer. Upon examination with a magnifiy glass, the odd bar on the left seems to be overstruck by the correct stamp. Good dective work you guy's....thanks much!