Military - Commercial Mauser Banner 41

Vlim · 09-02-2012, 09:56 AM

This pistol was introduced by a Dutch sports shooter on Jan Still's forum a few years ago. I recently found it for sale a a local dealer and purchased it.

The pistol is an interesting enigma. Numbers match, apart from some old repairs that were done to get it shooting safely again (holdopen and safety).

The main pistol is basically a military spec P.08 from 1941, the toggle train is all matching, but commercially proofed with a Mauser Banner (7-line) toggle. All parts fit perfectly and are numbered in the military style. Several others have been reported, and judging from the background of these guns they were manufactured this way. The general idea is that these were made after 1942 from available parts in order to fulfill sales to non-military organizations or individuals who were entitled to carry them.

There has been a lot of speculation about the combination, and many suggested that these were put together from parts by dealers at a later stage. Of course, this is always a possibility, but it was never a really important side business in Europe, where this pistol has remained.

One of the photos shows the pistol, combined with a box of ammunition that is also not supposed to exist: A military box of 9mm ammunition, produced by DWM, with normal faa-marked headstamps (steel cased mE). The label, however, is in the 'commercial' style, no encoding whatsoever. The producer is clearly marked and it even has a warning message for use in the P08 pistol.

So it neatly combines with a 'Military/Commercial P08'

SteveM · 09-02-2012, 11:23 AM

Vlim,

9949 no suffix? Where does it fit in production of the 41/42 or BYF41's? Or does it?

Thanks

Vlim · 09-02-2012, 11:26 AM

Steve, its an s suffix.

Jan C Still · 09-02-2012, 01:09 PM

Vlim
Interesting 41 Banner Army sn 9949s. Another 41 Banner Army is listed on page 140 of Third Reich Lugers. Its serial number is 6683q.

A link to other Forum discussion:
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...user+Banner+41

Jan

Vlim · 09-02-2012, 02:19 PM

Jan, thanks for the reference.

I included a better photo of the DWM label. It is the only one reported so far, it would be interesting to see if there are others like it (military 16-round box, 'commercial label') in other collections.

mrerick · 09-02-2012, 02:37 PM

Similar to my "42" date Banner Luger s/n 715g. It's been discussed here before...

and Here...

It is interesting to find another in Europe - implying that these were not just made for GIs returning to the US.

The broken trigger plate pin on mine makes me question if mine was really military inspected and passed. The overall re-blue on mine could have been an effort to quickly make the entire pistol look uniform.

I need to get a replacement trigger plate pin and see if what's inside the trigger transfer bar is blue or in the white...

Marc

Edward Tinker · 09-02-2012, 02:41 PM

Vlim, very nice

Ed

SteveM · 09-02-2012, 03:53 PM

Vlim,

Thanks for the suffix letter.

I was looking at the top view pic and was wondering if the vertical pin through the toggle is blued or in the white.

Thanks

Vlim · 09-02-2012, 04:12 PM

Steve. Good eye, its blued. As is the S-link and the recoil lever.

mrerick · 09-02-2012, 06:03 PM

Same things blued on my Mauser Luger.

Marc

CJS57 · 09-03-2012, 08:42 AM

Mauser Banner 42 #8300Y pure commercial, late war production, has blued trigger lever, blued "S" Link and blued toggle pin. By the way, most or all salt blued Lugers have blued toggle pins as well .

09-02-2012, 09:56 AM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Military - Commercial Mauser Banner 41 This pistol was introduced by a Dutch sports shooter on Jan Still's forum a few years ago. I recently found it for sale a a local dealer and purchased it. The pistol is an interesting enigma. Numbers match, apart from some old repairs that were done to get it shooting safely again (holdopen and safety). The main pistol is basically a military spec P.08 from 1941, the toggle train is all matching, but commercially proofed with a Mauser Banner (7-line) toggle. All parts fit perfectly and are numbered in the military style. Several others have been reported, and judging from the background of these guns they were manufactured this way. The general idea is that these were made after 1942 from available parts in order to fulfill sales to non-military organizations or individuals who were entitled to carry them. There has been a lot of speculation about the combination, and many suggested that these were put together from parts by dealers at a later stage. Of course, this is always a possibility, but it was never a really important side business in Europe, where this pistol has remained. One of the photos shows the pistol, combined with a box of ammunition that is also not supposed to exist: A military box of 9mm ammunition, produced by DWM, with normal faa-marked headstamps (steel cased mE). The label, however, is in the 'commercial' style, no encoding whatsoever. The producer is clearly marked and it even has a warning message for use in the P08 pistol. So it neatly combines with a 'Military/Commercial P08' Attached Thumbnails

09-02-2012, 01:09 PM	#4
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Vlim Interesting 41 Banner Army sn 9949s. Another 41 Banner Army is listed on page 140 of Third Reich Lugers. Its serial number is 6683q. A link to other Forum discussion: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...user+Banner+41 Jan Last edited by Jan C Still; 09-02-2012 at 02:01 PM.

09-02-2012, 02:19 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Jan, thanks for the reference. I included a better photo of the DWM label. It is the only one reported so far, it would be interesting to see if there are others like it (military 16-round box, 'commercial label') in other collections. Attached Images

09-02-2012, 02:37 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Similar to my "42" date Banner Luger s/n 715g. It's been discussed here before... and Here... It is interesting to find another in Europe - implying that these were not just made for GIs returning to the US. The broken trigger plate pin on mine makes me question if mine was really military inspected and passed. The overall re-blue on mine could have been an effort to quickly make the entire pistol look uniform. I need to get a replacement trigger plate pin and see if what's inside the trigger transfer bar is blue or in the white... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-02-2012, 06:03 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Same things blued on my Mauser Luger. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-02-2012, 11:23 AM	#2
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Vlim, 9949 no suffix? Where does it fit in production of the 41/42 or BYF41's? Or does it? Thanks

09-02-2012, 11:26 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Steve, its an s suffix.

09-02-2012, 02:41 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Vlim, very nice Ed

09-02-2012, 03:53 PM	#8
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Vlim, Thanks for the suffix letter. I was looking at the top view pic and was wondering if the vertical pin through the toggle is blued or in the white. Thanks

09-02-2012, 04:12 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Steve. Good eye, its blued. As is the S-link and the recoil lever.

09-03-2012, 08:42 AM	#11
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	Mauser Banner 42 #8300Y pure commercial, late war production, has blued trigger lever, blued "S" Link and blued toggle pin. By the way, most or all salt blued Lugers have blued toggle pins as well .