S42, 1936, P-08 original?

A friend of mine has a P-08 for sale in which I might be interested. The problem is that I am not sure it is in all original condition. The pistol is an S/42, 1936 dated, example. Serial is in the 80xx range. All numbers match except for the mag. Finish "appears" original and is similar to other P-08 manufactured in those years. However, trigger, ejector, safety lever etc. are not oxidized. They are blued or, possibly, heat blued. That's what puzzle me as I have often read that these parts were oxidized during the years 1934-38 on Mauser manufactured P-08. Yet, my friend insists his P-08 is all original. Is it possible that this pistol is a subvariation? I am no expert in Lugers and your opinion would be much appreciated. Thanks you all in advance. Regards.

[Ted]

My guess it is a recent dip blued gun! That is a military vintage gun and I bet it is salt blued. I have seen some salt blues that really looked almost rust blued! Ted

I would concur with Ted, and add that the parts that should be "strawed" have probably been re-done at some time, and they let the heat get away from them allowing the parts to become darker; going to blue. There were no "sub-variations" on these pistols regarding the finish practices. I base this on 40+ years of collecting, repair, and re-build of Luger pistols.

If those small parts are not a "urine" yellow or worn to unfinished steel, and are blued, the pistol has been refinished at some time.


I have not seen a salt blued S/42 1936 date luger that was original although there were probably some made to test the new finishing process that Mauser adopted for military contract lugers in 1937.


The one you saw is refinished and not original. I am a bit bugged that the seller swears it is original finish without providing incontrovertible proof of such. What gall is that to make claims that you can not substantiate and in this instance appear to be falsehoods?


dave

Just to beat the horse a little more. I want to be sure we/you are using the correct terms. The parts you mentioned should be strawed, this would appear as a yellowish color or if worn bare steel (white metal). If they are a "blue" or Black color the gun has been refinished after 1936. This could still be a pre-45, German re-blue or rework, but this is not likley and would be difficult to verify without a hands on evaluation. As far as Mauser German contract Lugers are concerned (S/42,42,byf)they were strawed (parts you mentioned) until about May of 1937 (give or take a month)some of the Mauser contract/commercial "Banner" types had strawed parts well after that date. Best of Luck.

[Mark]

Gruss Gott one and all!

I have fairly recently aquired an

S42- 1936 and all appears to be of original manufacture. All parts have

matching numbers( with the exception of the magazine,of course).The trigger,

takedown & safety levers are all "strawed". I was curious if this finish

has a truly functional purpose or if it

was done to simply please the eye, which

I must admit it does! I find it hard to

believe it was done for purely cosmetic

reasons on a military firearm even if I do find the result asthetically pleasing. If anyone would be so kind as to clue this novice in as to the"straw"

affect,I would like to know just out of

somewhat idle curiousity.Thanks!


Tschuss! Mark

[Kyrie]

Hi Mark,


You are right on target - the straw color is not cosmetic. It is the by-product of the special heat treatment these parts received. It was so pretty (and acted to protect the metal in the same way bluing does) that the parts were not buffed and blued after heat treatment.


Hope this helps.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Mark]

Gruss Gott,Kyrie!

Thanks for the clarification on "strawing".As much

as I would have liked to believe that it was just

thrown in for the sheer fact that it looks nice,I

figured there had to be more to the story.Be that as it may,it does look great!Thanks once again!


Tschuss! Mark

[Mark]

Gruss Gott,everbody!

My salutation means just what it says,

Everybody!! I have a question to throw

out there ( several questions in one,

actually ) and I would very much apreciate any help I could get on this one!

I fairly recently aquired an S42 1936

which appears to be in almost "out of the box" condition.It has all matching

parts and as such seemed like a fine

piece to take in.

After having become familiar with the Forum,I've been collecting bits and pieces of information which have helped me learn to cast a more critical eye on things.I've noticed several things which

at the very least make me desire some

clarification.

The reliefs for the date of manufacture above the chamber and the

S42 ID on the link aren't enameled.

Does this mean that the weapon has been

refinished or is there another explan-

ation.The "strawed" parts are in beautiful condition.It didn't register

in my mind that those ID markings weren't enameled.I just thought about it after coming to this site.I can't imagine why?!

A second point of curiosity came to light when I examined the pistol further.The serial# 816 is on the bottom of the barrel where it should be.However,I noticed something at the very base of the barrel which looked like a minor blemish to my weak naked

eye,but which proved to be a miniscule

notation reading 8,81(verified independently by a friend of mine) which

can only be read with the aid of the secondary lense in a magnifying glass.

Thirdly,there is a small case script

"o" on the front of the frame direcly

below the serial # .

Now that I have written a book about

this particular edition,does anyone have

any information to help me put all of these anamolies into perspective? Have

you ever run across a "counterfeit"

of this series? By that,I mean an an excellent copy in carbon steel which was not part of the original production run of that date?

Sorry about the length of the question,but I didn't know how to make it shorter.I'm new at these things.I thank one and all who can be of help in advance!


Tschuss! Mark

[Ted]

Mark, the only thing that should be enameled by the factory is the GESICHERT safety marking. Most pictures you see of whitened in S/42 and 1936 etc are added by the owners of the weapons, not the factory. Your weapon in the O block should have strawed parts. Is the inside of the receiver blued or in the white? A blued inside would indicate rebluing. A white inside would indicate orignal (MAYBE)

The small subscript is correct. The 8,81 is the barrel lands diameter (as opposed to the groove or bore diamter) it is slightly smaller than 9mm. PROSIT! Theodor Gruen

[John D.]

Hi Mark..!


I really enjoyed this post - so let's see if I can add some information for you. Hopefully, others will add more information as well - as I am not an expert in this series.


As to marks being enameled - they were not filled in with "white" paint/laquer/grease. Some collectors do that (myself included after some excellent input from Ted, Marvin and others on this site) to bring out these proofs and marks for display and photographs. It sounds like your Luger is just fine..


What the 8,81 is - is the measurement on the diameter of the "lands" in the barrel. Typically these are 8.8X, and yours just happens to be 8.81. These are correct for your Luger...


The scriptic "o" is called the "block". In other words - another Luger with your serial number could exist but within a different "block". The actual serial number of your Luger, then - is your serial number + this block letter...


Your 1936 S/42 sounds like an excellent piece..!! Pictures would be terrific..!!!


Best to you!


John D.

[Mark]

Gruss Gott,Ted!

Nobody beat you to the draw on that one!Thanks

for the info.!Gott in Himmel,you 're quick!!

Thanks again!


Tschuss! Mark

[Ted]

I try, I just dont have a life, lol! I live LUGERS

[Mark]

Gruss Gott,John D.!

Thanks for your help in understanding

these points which are troublesome to a novice,to say the very least!The only

original I have to compare it to is a

1917 Erfurt and it's reliefs are enameled.Now I have to wonder who did the work.Na,ja,(oh,well),at least it would seem that the "36 is legit.Even

if it weren't,I'd want to know who made

it.It surely is "purty!"(acknowledgement

of Ted's input intended).Thanks John(D.)!I appreciate your coming to my

assistance in my time of need!


Tschuss! Mark

[John D.]

Hi Mark..


Its a real pleasure to help out when I can - but I think I need to type faster if I'm going to be faster then Ted at posting answers


Seriously - it doesn't take much expertise to enamel the marks (which is why am able to do it ) Just a quick application with a marker of your choice (my preference is a white grease pencil that comes right off with your favorite gun oil and a toothbrush - I think it was Marvin's suggestion on the grease pencil). I do like the way they appear in my display with them filled in, as well...


My Best to you Mark..!!

[Ted]

I will be nice for a while John, I want everybody to participate, besides, I got bluing to do today! Ted

[John D.]

Saw the pics of G.T.'s Navy - EXCELLENT!!!


Now - back to blueing so I can post stuff on the board BEFORE you!!!


(Anyone have a question about Kriegs???!!!)

[Mark]

Gruss Gott one and all!

This may be inapproriate behavior,but if it is,

please forgive my transgression!This site is supposed to be for the exchange of thoughts and knowledge about Lugers.I understand that!But I have

to also say that it is the collection of people on

this site that I have had the pleasure and privelege

to correspond with which keep the "Luger Spirit"

alive!!You ( and those of your character,who haven't

yet found their way to this site- thanks Dok for

helping keep it in existence) make it more than a

collection of beautiful old relic firearms that can

be experienced.It's a brotherhood (and I mean that

in the most positive sense) for the appreciation of

history and how to give respect ,admiration,and

honor to the amazing acheivements of those who came

before us.Thanks to all of you!!I'm having a wonderful time trying to learn my way around in this new"World of Lugers(tm-Ralph )".Thanks for all your

help!You can rest assured I will be screaming for

assistance more times than you'll be able to count!

Have a great week,everybody!Tschuss! Mark

[John D.]

Your coments are very appropriate for this Board - so there surely isn't any rule you have broken by posting your note...


In truth - many of us have built lasting friendships from this site. Even more - you are exactly right - this Forum really is a "community", it lives through the posts and the unselfish sharing of all the people who give their knowledge, advice and support.. And of course - under the careful support and technical expertise of DOK.


For all that - WELCOME to this community Mark!!..!!! It really is wonderful to see someone as enthusiastic as yourself post their questions to this Board - and yes, we all started as you did - wanting to learn, unsure of who and where to ask - but with the Internet - this is a great place to give and get information.. As for me - I'm still a new collector compared to many in this community - and learning more each day - thanks to these folks....