need help with identifying 1920 com.

I recently inherited what appears to be a 1920 commercial

in exceptional condition 99 percent blue and maybe 85% straw with the only pitting on the trigger face with 2 clips one unmarked and the other with a four digit # not the same as the gun both plain wood but the one with the #'s is a lot darker the gun has the crown n proof and original wood grips with great lookig checkering

the serial # is 19 with all matching #'s the only 2 things I can't figure out are on the front of the frame and on the barrel below the serial # is an o in cursive

and in the well below the chamber is what appears to be an A

or v inside a circle and a heavily stamped j also it appears to be 30 cal and the barrel is a little less than 4 in. It is all in a cardboard box that appears orignal and has a cleaning rod and partition for the 2 clips


thanks for any help on further id and approximate value


Gary C.

[John Sabato]

You don't mention whether or not your pistol has a stock lug on the back of the grip... but let me see if I can address most of your questions.


I agree that it sounds like a 1920 commercial model from your description, but let's not be hasty. The "O" in cursive is the letter that designates the series of production... In other words, your pistol was the 16th Luger in the year of production that bears the serial number 19... The first series having no suffix letter and then letters a-thru-n for each of the series before the "O" series. The letter is an integral part of the serial number. The unmarked magazine (not clip) may be original to the pistol, but the mismatched numbered one is a replacement from another Luger.


The A in a circle proof mark on the frame, could indicate that the pistol was finished by the Krieghoff plant and would make your pistol a bit more valuable. Check the Technical information link to your left and look at the following sub-links under MARKINGS:


Suffix 1 should give you an example of the cursive "O" under the serial number. I don't have any serial number lists so I can say for certain that your pistol falls into a particular manufacturer's production run... perhaps someone else will comment on this.


Proof 3, #25 shows an example of a triangle in a circle stamp (which could be what you have seen on the frame)


Proof 5, #59 shows the A in a circle stamp.


You should download one or both of the ID sheets also under Technical Information, and make sure you have recorded all the marks that are on your pistol. By reporting them here, along with the scans or photos we can give you a close estimate of what you should be proudly possessing - a great Luger.


Two other documents you should definitely read are Forum Decorum, and the FAQ under the General Infomation link...


It would be helpful in determining the type and value if you could post a scan or photo of the sides and top of the pistol. If you have a scanner or access to one, it is easy. Just place the pistol on the clean glass and cover with a large sheet of white paper or cloth and scan as usual. The results can be very close to an expensive digital camera. These scans can be loaded anywhere on the internet (like photoisland.com) and "linked" from a post here on the forum.


Please open a profile and visit often, there is much to learn here... and once again welcome.


regards,


John Sabato

Lots of good information John, can't even imagine whipping out that info!


Welcome to the forum Gary, lots of nice helpful folks here and some blah, blah guys like me,


Ed

Thank you for all of the info John,


To answer your first question, yes it does have a stock lug.

As for the A in a circle it is down in the well below the chamber and appears to have been stamped crooked even with a magnifying glass I can't tell if it's an A or V or triangle the J thats stamped in the well is very clear.


I will look into the markings more as well.


Thank you


Gary C.

[Johnny Peppers]

The letter suffix commercial DWM's did not start a new serial number series at the beginning of the year like the WWI military Lugers. After the 1920 and 1921 dated commercials with ns, a, and b suffix, the commercial Lugers jumped to the i suffix and continued production straight through to the u suffix where Mauser took over in the v suffix block in 1930. Some of the first pistols manufactured by Mauser were the later series of Stoeger Lugers, and these had DWM marked toggles.

Hey guys,


I'm just double checking something I'm new to gun collecting.


On my gun the o is below the serial # is this where they normally put the suffix, and the o is only found on the front of frame and bottom of barrel, I'm still checking proof markings to try to find this particular o


Have a good one Gary c.

[John Sabato]

Is generally found on the frame as the lowercase "i" shown in the photo illustration. This location may vary slightly for each Luger encountered as the stamp was undoubtedly struck by hand, and location was not that critical.


Your "o" should be found in approximately the same location, and sometimes, but not always, the letter is also found on the underside of the barrel under the serial number stamp on the barrel of an otherwise unmodified Luger...


regards,


John Sabato






http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/suffixlocation.jpg

John,


Thanks for the info, my letter o is in the same spot so I guess it is a suffix and just like you said is also on the barrel.


sorry it took me so long to respond .


Gary C.