Police marking

maddog350gt · 02-06-2006, 12:15 PM

Hi all,

I have a Weimar/Nazi police gun (sear safety, disabled magazine safety) with unit marking G.P.O.20; I have looked in Gortz & Bryans and found references to a P.O marking for one of the police schools but no reference to the G. Any thoughts from the group on what this means? BTW it's an over-stamp of imperial marking 66.R.M.G.4

Thanks,
Bob M.

Herb · 02-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Bob, Jeff Noll shows in his book 'Imperial German Regimental Markings' that G.P. stands for Garde-Pionier-Battalion (Guard Engineer Battalion), but no 'O' connected to it. His definitions of the 'O' just don't tie in with the G.P.. the 20 probably indicates weapon #20.

maddog350gt · 02-06-2006, 01:58 PM

Herb,

Thanks for the info. I don't think this is imperial as it was redone for police service with the added sear safety and magazine safety. The original imperial markings were struck over. This should definitely be a police marking code but I haven't seen any reference to a G in use for police codes.

Thanks,
Bob M.

Ron Smith · 02-06-2006, 02:50 PM

Hi Bob, I'm thinkin' that your unit mark translates to:

Grenzpolizei Osterreich ( Border Police Eastreach/ Eastern Realm) or Eastern Border Patrol. I have a 1914 Mauser with a Grenzpolizei marking. Got photos??

Ron

Herb · 02-06-2006, 02:50 PM

I checked all of the authorized Police codes thru 1937, there is no G in connection with P.O.. Putting a G there could possible indicate the Gumbinnen district of the Ostpreussen Police School, but I think that might be streatching it a little and assuming there was a school in the Gumbrinnen district. Here are the known listings...

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html

Don M · 02-06-2006, 05:10 PM

This is a new one on me. Wish I could help but don't have a clue!

maddog350gt · 02-06-2006, 06:19 PM

Herb, Ron, and Don;

Thanks, I will try to get photo's tonight but it is definatly G.P.O. 20; I have not been able to trace down any connection with published unit codes. I was hoping some one would have something I didn't. Ron, so far I think your guess is the best one going.

Thanks,
Bob M.

Ron Smith · 02-06-2006, 06:20 PM

Don,
I am fairly certain of my transaltion. I have seen one other with this marking. It was (supposedly) authenticated.

Ron

Ron Wood · 02-06-2006, 06:22 PM

Ron, I have heard of the Grenzpolizei interpretation also, but I can't quote you a reference.

Herb · 02-06-2006, 08:10 PM

The Grenzpolizei didn't come into being until after the war (1946), and if this is one of those Lugers it should also have the DDR markings on it too.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=7203

Ron Smith · 02-06-2006, 09:00 PM

Herb,

The Grenzpolizei were formed in the 1919 to early 20s period to patrol the Eastern Frontier along the Polish and Czech borders.

On page 118 ~Uniforms,Organization & history of the German Police~ by Angolia and Taylor.

"Frontier Protection/Frontier Police/Frontier Protection Police (Grenzschutz/Grenzpolizei/Grenzschutzpolizei). Frontier police existed in border states during the Weimar period, as a federal border control service."

A photo of my Grenzpolizei unit marked (G.P.349) 1914 Mauser. Magazine is faintly marked G.P. 1.

Photo of a Grenzpolizei Officer dated 1919.

Ron

maddog350gt · 02-07-2006, 10:59 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the help; here are some photos of the gun and the unit mark. As I said this is an over stamp of a WWI unit mark (66. R.M.G.4); I think you can see both of them clearly.

02-06-2006, 12:15 PM	#1
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Police marking Hi all, I have a Weimar/Nazi police gun (sear safety, disabled magazine safety) with unit marking G.P.O.20; I have looked in Gortz & Bryans and found references to a P.O marking for one of the police schools but no reference to the G. Any thoughts from the group on what this means? BTW it's an over-stamp of imperial marking 66.R.M.G.4 Thanks, Bob M.

02-06-2006, 02:50 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Bob, I'm thinkin' that your unit mark translates to: Grenzpolizei Osterreich ( Border Police Eastreach/ Eastern Realm) or Eastern Border Patrol. I have a 1914 Mauser with a Grenzpolizei marking. Got photos?? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-06-2006, 02:50 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I checked all of the authorized Police codes thru 1937, there is no G in connection with P.O.. Putting a G there could possible indicate the Gumbinnen district of the Ostpreussen Police School, but I think that might be streatching it a little and assuming there was a school in the Gumbrinnen district. Here are the known listings... http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

02-06-2006, 05:10 PM	#6
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	This is a new one on me. Wish I could help but don't have a clue! __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

02-06-2006, 06:20 PM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Don, I am fairly certain of my transaltion. I have seen one other with this marking. It was (supposedly) authenticated. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-06-2006, 01:09 PM	#2
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Bob, Jeff Noll shows in his book 'Imperial German Regimental Markings' that G.P. stands for Garde-Pionier-Battalion (Guard Engineer Battalion), but no 'O' connected to it. His definitions of the 'O' just don't tie in with the G.P.. the 20 probably indicates weapon #20. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

02-06-2006, 01:58 PM	#3
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Herb, Thanks for the info. I don't think this is imperial as it was redone for police service with the added sear safety and magazine safety. The original imperial markings were struck over. This should definitely be a police marking code but I haven't seen any reference to a G in use for police codes. Thanks, Bob M.

02-06-2006, 06:19 PM	#7
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Herb, Ron, and Don; Thanks, I will try to get photo's tonight but it is definatly G.P.O. 20; I have not been able to trace down any connection with published unit codes. I was hoping some one would have something I didn't. Ron, so far I think your guess is the best one going. Thanks, Bob M.

02-06-2006, 06:22 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Ron, I have heard of the Grenzpolizei interpretation also, but I can't quote you a reference. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-06-2006, 08:10 PM	#10
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The Grenzpolizei didn't come into being until after the war (1946), and if this is one of those Lugers it should also have the DDR markings on it too. http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=7203 __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

02-06-2006, 09:00 PM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Herb, The Grenzpolizei were formed in the 1919 to early 20s period to patrol the Eastern Frontier along the Polish and Czech borders. On page 118 ~Uniforms,Organization & history of the German Police~ by Angolia and Taylor. "Frontier Protection/Frontier Police/Frontier Protection Police (Grenzschutz/Grenzpolizei/Grenzschutzpolizei). Frontier police existed in border states during the Weimar period, as a federal border control service." A photo of my Grenzpolizei unit marked (G.P.349) 1914 Mauser. Magazine is faintly marked G.P. 1. Photo of a Grenzpolizei Officer dated 1919. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-07-2006, 10:59 AM	#12
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hi guys, Thanks for all the help; here are some photos of the gun and the unit mark. As I said this is an over stamp of a WWI unit mark (66. R.M.G.4); I think you can see both of them clearly. Attached Thumbnails