My first luger. its a Frankenstein, but its mine!!!!!!!!!!

beamersquared · 10-17-2002, 09:14 PM

Well I finally got a Luger and I have a lot of questions. First off let me decribe what I have and then I would like to ask some questions, maybe you Luger forum experts can help educate me.

1) I have a 1915 Po8 DWM with 4 inch barrel.
2) Barrel,toggle and frame #'s do not match.
3) it has been reblued. (dip Blue)
4) it has black plastic grips(rather poor quality)
5) It has a nickle WW1 clip with a wood bottom but no # on it.
6) It is 9mm cal.

Markings:

barrel chamber top= 1915

barrel chamber left side serial# has four digit # with no suffix or prefix letters. 4588

right side barrel has 4 acceptance marks for military use. I looked it up and the forum's markings chart and it says that these markings are for a Imperial luger from 1914 to 1918, made by DWM.

toggle says DWM in script. and 39 last two of a serial#

Frame under barrel has four digit serial number with no suffix or prefix, 8081

under side of barrel has a S and small O also another mark that I cant tell what it is.

There are absolutly no import markings that I can find?

Side plate, take down lever and saftey has no # markings.

Questions:

Is this a east german gun. used by police after WWII??.

Could this be a gun that a GI brought back from WWII?? and had it reblued.

Could this be a WWI gun that was arsenal reconditioned for WWII??

Well I guess the bottom line is that its a great shooter and I only paid 340$ bucks for it. So whatever Frankensteins history is, its still a Luger and that counts for something.

Thanks for all your help.

Beamersquared [img]confused.gif[/img]

Frank · 10-18-2002, 09:41 AM

The questions you ask are difficult to answer, without seeing the pistol. From your description, I would say that it is a recent Russian import. Refinished by a dip blueing for sale in the US. I am surprised it doesn't have any import marks. Look hard, since they are sometimes hard to see.

If your Luger shoot well and is reliable, the $340 is a bargin. Most "shooters" would sell in the $400 to $550 range, depending on condition.

Good Shooting!!!

John Sabato · 10-18-2002, 10:43 AM

The import mark if there is one may be stamped inside the grip area or on a frame rail that doesn't show when the pistol is assembled.

This could be one of the "arsenal refinished" guns sold by mail order back in the 1950's or 60's

Congrats! and welcome to the Lugerforum. It was a great buy!

Thor · 10-18-2002, 11:58 AM

I have noticed import marks on the bottom of the barrel (most common location), and also on the right frame rail back by and below the right toggle knob, and also below the right rail on the same side.
I have noticed three times a very hidden marking that is very small letters, tends to be light struck and is not very easy to see even if you are looking for it. This is ALSO on the right side but at the right rail front of the frame and tucked UNDER the right rail and just above the right end of the take down lever. In this location you have to turn the Luger upside down to see it and with the ashen cold dip bluing hiding it.
I have heard of the inside the grip marking but I have never seen one. I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Thanks!

Dwight Gruber · 10-18-2002, 02:01 PM

Thor · 10-18-2002, 02:17 PM

Isnt that usually where they put the EXPORT marking?

Dwight Gruber · 10-18-2002, 02:38 PM

D'oh! That should teach me to read everything printed on the screen...previous post eliminated due to terminal embarrasment [img]redface.gif[/img]

--Dwight

John Sabato · 10-18-2002, 02:44 PM

thor, I have a photo example of the under grip import mark somewhere in my archive, but unfortunately, the photo archive is not indexed... (one of those neat "to do" projects someday in the future)...

I will post the photo if I can find it...

Thor · 10-18-2002, 02:57 PM

Hey Dwight, dont sweat the little stuff! Good point on the export markings, those are important too. Also on the bottom of some wooden mag bottoms, on th front of left rail, front of right rail,even saw one on left side area of frame, on the barrel, on the left receiver above the ejector, heck they put that GERMANY almost everywhere, lol

beamersquared · 10-18-2002, 05:31 PM

Well I have been looking for a import mark with a magnifying glass for a hour and Im very sure that this gun has no import marks. I found several individual letter marks on the barrel receiver bottom after disassembly (N, R, T, K2, J, R) and a few marks behind the side plate(45 in a circle and b in a diamond) all these look like different inspector marks, but nothing that looks like a import mark. I have covered every square inch of this gun twice!! also I found a mark on the wooden mag bottom, at first I thought it was a scratch but under magnification its a crown over a script letter.

Does any one have any thoughts about all this.

Thanks

beamersquared

beamersquared · 10-18-2002, 07:49 PM

EBT added pics having trouble w/ #3

Lightened:

beamersquared

wterrell · 10-18-2002, 08:06 PM

beamersquared,

I am gaining quite a bit of respect for you. You own Lugers, more than one beamer, and oak furniture. You are an OK guy.

beamersquared · 10-18-2002, 08:29 PM

Thanks for the kind words Wes. I have a great appreciation for wood. making fine furniture out of oak, cherry and walnut and other good woods is my hobby and second job.

Beam is my last name (a good german name don't you think??), so my wife and I go by the handle of "Beamersquared" which is a funny way of saying beam to the second power!!!

Sorry im just a poor engineer/cabinet maker so I cant afford to own a Beamer automobile.

beamersquared

Aaron · 10-18-2002, 08:41 PM

Speaking of import marks, they can be unbelievably tiny. I owned an Erfurt for three months until I discovered that the scratchmark under the barrel was actually the name and address of the importer. I think the letters are only about 1/64" tall, and very lightly stamped.

beamersquared · 10-18-2002, 09:23 PM

I give up!! Just went over my gun for the 5th time with a even more high powered magnifi glass and no import marks. I have ownned other guns with import marks (2 m1 garands,3 m1 carbines, 1 P1 walther pistol a swede and a german mauser rifle, all had import marks. I have come to the conclusion that this gun is not a recent import or someone forgot to stamp it. ??????

what does everyone think??

thanks

beamersquared

Edward Tinker · 10-18-2002, 09:54 PM

I've got a question on that issue?

Guns bought from European Military gun clubs, were they import stamped?

And lots of guns brought back after war time and also from other countries. They wouldn't be marked at all.

And as some have stated, I am sure a few guns make it through without import markings.

hermit · 10-19-2002, 05:00 PM

I am a neophite, but I am quite certain that there was no import marks on my byf 41. I don't know how the owner got it back to canada many years ago, but my question is; would this increase collector value?

George Anderson · 10-19-2002, 06:43 PM

Probably a WWI bring-back that one or more goobers "tuned-up" over the last 80+ years. There are more First War pieces floating around this country than you can shake a stick at.

I spent ten years sweet talking and cajoling an old lady in my home town in Virginia to at least show me the LP08 I knew she had. It was brought back by her father who was a 1LT in the first war but she was convinced that it as unlawful because of the stock.

Finally after many years, I convinced her that the gun and stock were Okay. She invited me over to look at it one Sunday.

Up into the loft I went. She showed me the LP08 (1918) all matching. She showed me the pickelhauben. She showed me the coal scuttle. And last she showed me the BAR!

I got the luger and helmets and got the hell outa there. Later I told her daughter she needed to drop the BAR in the mouth of the Shenandoah.

The doughboys were WORLD CLASS tourists and brought back all kinds of stuff.

beamersquared · 10-19-2002, 08:02 PM

Wow!!!

I took old Frankenluger to the range today and man what a shooter!! My first four shots were dead on in a 1.5 inch bullseye and the last four were all touching the edge of the bullseye all this at 25 ft. and no rest. Man what a shooter!! This guns got a trigger thats as smooth as silk and breaks very clean (better than my Ruger MK II Tareget model). I used american eagle 115gr fmj and worked flawless for 50 rds. also shot 25 rds of UMC 115 gr JHP. thats right a HP and no jams. I have a feeling that this was somebodys pet shooter and they worked it until it was perfection. That may explain why its made up of parts from several guns. Maybe they were making a supershooter and took what they thought were the best parts to accomplish the job. I know this is only speculation but its fun to dream about such things. The bottom line is that , (It shot the nuts of my Walther PI which is in almost new condition.)and no slouch when it comes to accuracy.

Im a happy man!!!!!!!!!

Beamersquared

Doubs · 10-19-2002, 08:18 PM

Bx2, you're not the first man to discover that the Luger can be brilliantly accurate. FrankenLuger or no, if yours is accurate and reliable, be pleased.... very pleased. Now that you have your prize shooter, it's time to begin the search for your first collector's piece!

Congratulations on your first Luger and may you own many more.

10-17-2002, 09:14 PM	#1
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My first luger. its a Frankenstein, but its mine!!!!!!!!!! Well I finally got a Luger and I have a lot of questions. First off let me decribe what I have and then I would like to ask some questions, maybe you Luger forum experts can help educate me. 1) I have a 1915 Po8 DWM with 4 inch barrel. 2) Barrel,toggle and frame #'s do not match. 3) it has been reblued. (dip Blue) 4) it has black plastic grips(rather poor quality) 5) It has a nickle WW1 clip with a wood bottom but no # on it. 6) It is 9mm cal. Markings: barrel chamber top= 1915 barrel chamber left side serial# has four digit # with no suffix or prefix letters. 4588 right side barrel has 4 acceptance marks for military use. I looked it up and the forum's markings chart and it says that these markings are for a Imperial luger from 1914 to 1918, made by DWM. toggle says DWM in script. and 39 last two of a serial# Frame under barrel has four digit serial number with no suffix or prefix, 8081 under side of barrel has a S and small O also another mark that I cant tell what it is. There are absolutly no import markings that I can find? Side plate, take down lever and saftey has no # markings. Questions: Is this a east german gun. used by police after WWII??. Could this be a gun that a GI brought back from WWII?? and had it reblued. Could this be a WWI gun that was arsenal reconditioned for WWII?? Well I guess the bottom line is that its a great shooter and I only paid 340$ bucks for it. So whatever Frankensteins history is, its still a Luger and that counts for something. Thanks for all your help. Beamersquared [img]confused.gif[/img]

10-18-2002, 11:58 AM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I have noticed import marks on the bottom of the barrel (most common location), and also on the right frame rail back by and below the right toggle knob, and also below the right rail on the same side. I have noticed three times a very hidden marking that is very small letters, tends to be light struck and is not very easy to see even if you are looking for it. This is ALSO on the right side but at the right rail front of the frame and tucked UNDER the right rail and just above the right end of the take down lever. In this location you have to turn the Luger upside down to see it and with the ashen cold dip bluing hiding it. I have heard of the inside the grip marking but I have never seen one. I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Thanks! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-18-2002, 02:17 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Isnt that usually where they put the EXPORT marking? __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-18-2002, 02:44 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	thor, I have a photo example of the under grip import mark somewhere in my archive, but unfortunately, the photo archive is not indexed... (one of those neat "to do" projects someday in the future)... I will post the photo if I can find it... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-18-2002, 02:57 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Hey Dwight, dont sweat the little stuff! Good point on the export markings, those are important too. Also on the bottom of some wooden mag bottoms, on th front of left rail, front of right rail,even saw one on left side area of frame, on the barrel, on the left receiver above the ejector, heck they put that GERMANY almost everywhere, lol __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-18-2002, 09:41 AM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	The questions you ask are difficult to answer, without seeing the pistol. From your description, I would say that it is a recent Russian import. Refinished by a dip blueing for sale in the US. I am surprised it doesn't have any import marks. Look hard, since they are sometimes hard to see. If your Luger shoot well and is reliable, the $340 is a bargin. Most "shooters" would sell in the $400 to $550 range, depending on condition. Good Shooting!!!

10-18-2002, 10:43 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The import mark if there is one may be stamped inside the grip area or on a frame rail that doesn't show when the pistol is assembled. This could be one of the "arsenal refinished" guns sold by mail order back in the 1950's or 60's Congrats! and welcome to the Lugerforum. It was a great buy! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-18-2002, 02:01 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts

10-18-2002, 02:38 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	D'oh! That should teach me to read everything printed on the screen...previous post eliminated due to terminal embarrasment [img]redface.gif[/img] --Dwight

10-18-2002, 05:31 PM	#10
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well I have been looking for a import mark with a magnifying glass for a hour and Im very sure that this gun has no import marks. I found several individual letter marks on the barrel receiver bottom after disassembly (N, R, T, K2, J, R) and a few marks behind the side plate(45 in a circle and b in a diamond) all these look like different inspector marks, but nothing that looks like a import mark. I have covered every square inch of this gun twice!! also I found a mark on the wooden mag bottom, at first I thought it was a scratch but under magnification its a crown over a script letter. Does any one have any thoughts about all this. Thanks beamersquared

10-18-2002, 07:49 PM	#11
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	EBT added pics having trouble w/ #3 Lightened: beamersquared

10-18-2002, 08:06 PM	#12
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	beamersquared, I am gaining quite a bit of respect for you. You own Lugers, more than one beamer, and oak furniture. You are an OK guy. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

10-18-2002, 08:29 PM	#13
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the kind words Wes. I have a great appreciation for wood. making fine furniture out of oak, cherry and walnut and other good woods is my hobby and second job. Beam is my last name (a good german name don't you think??), so my wife and I go by the handle of "Beamersquared" which is a funny way of saying beam to the second power!!! Sorry im just a poor engineer/cabinet maker so I cant afford to own a Beamer automobile. beamersquared

10-18-2002, 08:41 PM	#14
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Speaking of import marks, they can be unbelievably tiny. I owned an Erfurt for three months until I discovered that the scratchmark under the barrel was actually the name and address of the importer. I think the letters are only about 1/64" tall, and very lightly stamped.

10-18-2002, 09:23 PM	#15
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I give up!! Just went over my gun for the 5th time with a even more high powered magnifi glass and no import marks. I have ownned other guns with import marks (2 m1 garands,3 m1 carbines, 1 P1 walther pistol a swede and a german mauser rifle, all had import marks. I have come to the conclusion that this gun is not a recent import or someone forgot to stamp it. ?????? what does everyone think?? thanks beamersquared

10-18-2002, 09:54 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	I've got a question on that issue? Guns bought from European Military gun clubs, were they import stamped? And lots of guns brought back after war time and also from other countries. They wouldn't be marked at all. And as some have stated, I am sure a few guns make it through without import markings. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-19-2002, 05:00 PM	#17
hermit User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: canada Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am a neophite, but I am quite certain that there was no import marks on my byf 41. I don't know how the owner got it back to canada many years ago, but my question is; would this increase collector value?

10-19-2002, 06:43 PM	#18
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Probably a WWI bring-back that one or more goobers "tuned-up" over the last 80+ years. There are more First War pieces floating around this country than you can shake a stick at. I spent ten years sweet talking and cajoling an old lady in my home town in Virginia to at least show me the LP08 I knew she had. It was brought back by her father who was a 1LT in the first war but she was convinced that it as unlawful because of the stock. Finally after many years, I convinced her that the gun and stock were Okay. She invited me over to look at it one Sunday. Up into the loft I went. She showed me the LP08 (1918) all matching. She showed me the pickelhauben. She showed me the coal scuttle. And last she showed me the BAR! I got the luger and helmets and got the hell outa there. Later I told her daughter she needed to drop the BAR in the mouth of the Shenandoah. The doughboys were WORLD CLASS tourists and brought back all kinds of stuff.

10-19-2002, 08:02 PM	#19
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow!!! I took old Frankenluger to the range today and man what a shooter!! My first four shots were dead on in a 1.5 inch bullseye and the last four were all touching the edge of the bullseye all this at 25 ft. and no rest. Man what a shooter!! This guns got a trigger thats as smooth as silk and breaks very clean (better than my Ruger MK II Tareget model). I used american eagle 115gr fmj and worked flawless for 50 rds. also shot 25 rds of UMC 115 gr JHP. thats right a HP and no jams. I have a feeling that this was somebodys pet shooter and they worked it until it was perfection. That may explain why its made up of parts from several guns. Maybe they were making a supershooter and took what they thought were the best parts to accomplish the job. I know this is only speculation but its fun to dream about such things. The bottom line is that , (It shot the nuts of my Walther PI which is in almost new condition.)and no slouch when it comes to accuracy. Im a happy man!!!!!!!!! Beamersquared

10-19-2002, 08:18 PM	#20
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 770 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	Bx2, you're not the first man to discover that the Luger can be brilliantly accurate. FrankenLuger or no, if yours is accurate and reliable, be pleased.... very pleased. Now that you have your prize shooter, it's time to begin the search for your first collector's piece! Congratulations on your first Luger and may you own many more.