Luger Stock

[Maestro]

According to the BATFE's web site FAQ:

Luger, Artillery model, pistols having chamber dates of 1914 through 1918 or 1920, having
German Weimar Navy markings consisting of the letter M over an anchor and a German Navy property number accompanied by original Artillery Luger flat board stocks, bearing German Weimar Navy markings of the letter M over an anchor with or without Navy property numbers.
Luger, the 1920 Commercial Artillery model, pistols as mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having undated
35
SECTION III
chambers, commercial proofmarks, and bearing the inscription Germany or Made in Germany on the receiver and accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the
American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4", with original
detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.
DWM Luger, Original models 1904, 1906, 1908, 1914, and 1920. Naval pistols in 9mm
parabellum or 7.65mm cal., in both the Commercial and Naval military varieties; in both altered and unaltered barrel lengths in the model 1904 and in both altered and unaltered safety markings in the model 1906; with original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs, with or without markings, or, if without brass or iron discs, being of the Navy flat board-type. This exemption applies only to the listed Naval Luger pistols if mated to the Naval Luger stock and will not apply if the Naval Luger pistol is mated to the Artillery stock. The Naval stock has an overall dimension of 12-3/4", a rear width of 4-5/8", a front width of 1-1/2", a rear thickness of 9/16", and a front thickness of l-3/16".
Luger, DWM Stoeger model 1920 and 1923, semiautomatic pistols in 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum
cal., in barrel lengths of 8, 10, 12, and 12-1/2", having either American Eagle chamber crests and/or Stoeger frame and/or upper receiver marks, having either standard, Navy or artillery rear sights, having extractors marked either "Loaded" or "Geladen" and having frame safety markings of either "Gesichert" or "Safe," together w/original commercial flat board stocks of the artillery type, which bear no S/Ns or military proof marks; may include a "Germany" marking.
Luger, DWM Pistol-Carbine, model 1920, 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., with accompanying
original commercial type shoulder stock, with or without forearm piece, having barrel
lengths of 11-3/4" to less than 16".
Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having chambers dated
1914 –1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks & accompanied by original,
German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Luger, model 1902, Pistol-Carbine, 7.65mm Luger with original commercial type shoulder stock and
forearm and 11-3/4" barrel.
Luger, Persian (Iranian) Artillery model, pistols, as mfd. by Mauser prior to 1945, accompanied by the
original artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stock, bearing a S/N in Farsi characters stamped into the wood on the left side.
Luger, semiautomatic pistol, certain variations with Benke-Thiemann folding shoulder stock.

Source http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=44&t=73768

[wlyon]

That may be true in Cal. but BATF has ruled that repro's that duplicate originals may be used on Navy and Artillery lugers. Not legal to have a Navy stock on a artillery or reversed. You need not apply to BATF for anything. Bill

[lugerholsterrepair]

Either a real or repro stock is only legal on a Luger which was originally issued with a stock. The C&R list has a section that list acceptable pistol and stocks sets and it states that the stock must be original issue stocks not reproductions or replicas . A repro stock on a Luger, even if it's an exact duplicate, has to first pass the proper paperwork and registration of the stock and pistol as a Short Barrel Rifle with the BATFE and may have to pay the $200 tax stamp fee. According to ATF list of curios and relics (pub. 5300.11, part III), the lugers and stocks that are exempt or excluded from the NFA restrictions are very specific, and don't cover all pre-war and wartime artillery lugers and stocks.


Reproduction stocks, Artillery or Navy are legal with Artillery or Navy Luger's. The above statement is either un clear, misleading or false.

[cirelaw]

I did notice one above~~

[Ron Wood]

The BATFE pub has not been updated to reflect the exemption for repro stocks. However, an exemption was requested by Odin in 1981 and the exemption was granted by letter from the BATFE. This question comes up about twice a year and we have to revisit it each time. Seems like there must be a way avoid the repetition.

[gunbugs]

I would submit that Ron's post pretty much puts an end to the question....

[ithacaartist]

Darius,

I suggest this refinement for further clarity:

...A repro stock on any other Luger with a barrel less than 16", even if it's an exact duplicate...

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Darius,

I suggest this refinement for further clarity:

sure thing. this was a quote from Johnny Peppers:

In the Germanicon military Lugers, only the 6" Navy and 8" Artillery were ever issued with a shoulder stock.
On the Navy and Artillery the stock was never used alone. It was attached to the holster, and the holster and stock were used together. The rig was carried slung over the shoulder by straps rather than being in a holster fastened to the belt.

during my research as suggested by mods.
Source: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=25509

[cirelaw]

Both carbines were issued also with a matching stock! Was it legal to fire one without the stock or was it considered a cut down carbine??~~~Eric

[gizmo]

Great discussion, but clarification still needed as follows:

C&R list and ATF determinations re: removable and fixed stocks are very well defined.

To NOT be an "NFA" item (i.e., one requiring a tax stamp and registration), other than as exempted specifically under C&R, anything goes...with respect to a fixed or removable stock so long as the overall length is at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches. Otherwise, whether one starts with a pistol and adds a stock or, conversely, a rifle and cuts the barrel, if those requirements are not met, one has a short barrelled rifle (SBR), which is an NFA weapon. NO EXCEPTION other than those indicated per C&R list.

Food for thought: the POSSESSION of components resulting in a NFA weapon as defined above ( total length of less than 26 inches and/or barrel of less than 16 inches ) "in close proximity" (will leave that definition up to the reader), if somehow brought to the attention of the ATF can potentially be problematic, unless status of said combination has been made kosher formally via NFA registration prior to such time as it is "assembled" (put in close proximity), not necessarily attached!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by gizmo

Great discussion, but clarification still needed as follows:

C&R list and ATF determinations re: removable and fixed stocks are very well defined.

To NOT be an "NFA" item (i.e., one requiring a tax stamp and registration), other than as exempted specifically under C&R, anything goes...with respect to a fixed or removable stock so long as the overall length is at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches. Otherwise, whether one starts with a pistol and adds a stock or, conversely, a rifle and cuts the barrel, if those requirements are not met, one has a short barrelled rifle (SBR), which is an NFA weapon. NO EXCEPTION other than those indicated per C&R list.

Gizmo -

Could you tell me where you found that quote???

[wlyon]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Bill

[gizmo]

I refer you to http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/index.html

More specifically, I direct your attention to : ATF Rul. 2011-4

This ruling is the final poop on the status of shoulder stocks with reference to Lugers, Mausers and the like, irrespective of those excluded due to C and R status, of course, which has been cited by others in this thread. As you will see, I believe my previous post succinctly defines the basic tenets of this ruling with respect to the legal status of of shoulder stocks "in close proximity" to Lugers of varying barrel length of less than 16 inches and/or assembled units with a total length of less than 26 inches irrespective of barrel length.

Furthermore, I wish to direct your attention to Page three of the ATF letter of Rule beginning with the first of the four paragraphs in the conclusion beginning with ""Held..." namely that paragraph specifically addressing the potential pitfall to the unwary presented by "unassembled parts ...placed in close proximity."


Morris Gardner (gizmo)

[usmodel1873]

Since this thread has diverged I'll go some more.

Why did 4" Lugers have a stock lug if they were not intended to be used with a stock?

Further, why was the stock lug continued into WWII if not intended to be used with a stock?

Thanks,
David

[cirelaw]

I read its' real reason it was to be used in manufacture for grasping and holding the luger such as diping or being individualed tooled! I can't individually attest to this fact!!

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

This question comes up about twice a year and we have to revisit it each time. Seems like there must be a way avoid the repetition.

It needs to be a sticky...

[larry]

Question to ponder fellows.
Sure it can be a pain for the very experienced Luger fellows to explain over and over but what is the main purpose of this site that is so generously provided to us?
Isn't it so we all can learn from from each other and especially from the very experienced guys and gals?

[cirelaw]

The questions are often more important than the answers!! Eric

[Norme]

Originally Posted by larry

Question to ponder fellows.
Sure it can be a pain for the very experienced Luger fellows to explain over and over but what is the main purpose of this site that is so generously provided to us?
Isn't it so we all can learn from from each other and especially from the very experienced guys and gals?

Hi Larry, While what you say is perfectly true, most of the questions asked and answered on this thread have been asked and answered countless times in the past (see below). I don't think it's asking too much to expect members to use the forum's search function before asking a question.
Regards, Norm
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ight=stock+lug

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by usmodel1873

Why did 4" Lugers have a stock lug if they were not intended to be used with a stock?David

Some Finnish 4" M23 Lugers were issued with Shoulder Stocks..