What is this?

[Vegas]

I'm new here and need a little help identifying this Luger. I'll list what marks it has then go from there. SN 2715, Brand? Gesichert, #15 below rear sight, #15 on front toggle left side above trigger, wood magazine?, wood grips. some symbols on left side of barrel there are 3 symbols;one looks like a bird/eagle, second looks like a rocking chair (best way to describe it) third looks like a letter "B" with a crown above it. There are also birds/eagles on barrel and top piece that moves when shells are ejected. Number on bottom of magazine is 8702. Here are some pics. I'll borrow a better digi cam to get closer pics of symbols.

I aquired this Luger from a family friend who passed away a few years back and would like to know how to register it so I can sell it. I like the gun, but its not me. It also came with a holster which I don't think is the original holster that came with the gun.

P.S. Its a 9mm and hasn't been refinished. Operates very smooth, and shoots very accurate.

[Vegas]

Thanks for future help and I'll check in to answer questions.

[Edward Tinker]

Hello Paul, welcome to the forum.

The pistol is nice, although it has seen beter days, looks like some pitting on the sides.

The "brand" is actually DWM, and the Gesichert means "ready" to fire, for the safety. (Not Exactly Ed, when the "Gesichert" is showing, then the pistol is "safe" or locked... The word translates to "secured"...and when it isn't showing...lever in the up position for this model, then the gun is ready to fire...Edit by Admin-JS) Yah, yah, but mainly what I was trying to say was that the lever was for the safety and NOT for the brand... EBT

Does it have any numbers on the top of the receiver, i.e. 1917, 1939 etc.? Under the barrel you might see 8,83, or 8,84, etc., that is the barrels land to land measurement. Also, there might be a "suffix" under the barrel by the serial number, i.e. 2715 e or 2715 k etc., although I think it might be in the "commerical" marking style, as I don't believe I see exposed serial numbers on the left? {{althought the #15 is the last two of the serial number and consistent with military markings}}

Registering depends on your state... In the last two states I lived, Washington and now Colorado, there is no state registration, so you could legally sell it to me, as a C&R FFL holder (as an example).

ED

[Vegas]

Hi thanks for the reply. There are no other numbers other than 2715 and #15 repeated else where on the pistol. I've examined the holster and found the date on the back, 1941 with "P08" and a swastica (not sure about spelling). I'll try to post better pics. My camara doesn't do micro zoom. I live in Nevada, so I'll have to check with my local dealer about registration. Thanks again.

[Lugerdoc]

From the little that I can make out from your photos, I would guess that this is a 1st issue (1908 & 09) DWM military (no date on chamber and no stock lug with Imperial proofing on the left side of receiver). I'm assuming that it is all matching and 9mm. TH

[Karl]

Vegas,

Your description is a bit hard to follow but I think you have a first issue P-08. The eagle symbol is an army test proof. It should appear on the left side of the barrel, left side of the breechblock (the top piece that moves when shells are ejected) and left side of the receiver (flat area just behind the barrel) along with the two other symbols you describe (army inspection stamps). There should be no date stamped on top of the reciever. In addition to the #15 you described in two locations, the number should also be located on the bottom of the side plate (right next to the trigger) and on the bottom of the take down lever. For the names of various parts see the diagram and parts list under the "technical information" link on the home page.

I am not qualified to place a value on the gun but I am potentially interested in it once you have established its value. KFS

[Vegas]

Cool, thanks for the info.

[Dwight Gruber]

Vegas,

Looking forward to the detailed pictures.

Does this Luger's toggle stay open after the last shot is fired? Is the number on the magazine base small across its width, or large along its length?

--Dwight

[Vegas]

I shot 2 magazines through it 8 years ago and can't remember if toggle stays open or not. Number on bottom of magazine is small across its width.

[John Sabato]

Please see my edit to Ed Tinker's posting above regarding the "Gesichert" marking... ADMIN, see above, or here: Yah, yah, but mainly what I was trying to say was that the lever was for the safety and NOT for the brand... EBT

If the Toggle stays open when it is pulled back all the way with an empty magazine inserted, then it will stay open after the last shot. The holdopen device was not standardized on early Lugers... so it may have been retrofitted for this feature, or it may be without a holdopen device.

[Vegas]

Yes it stays open when pulled back with empty magazine.

[Vegas]

Update: I just broke gun down to do further inspection, and found that all parts are #15. On inside of grip looks like letter "P" or "d".

[John Sabato]

Is there a small lower case german alphabet character under the serial number on the front of the frame in front of the trigger guard? This character, if it exists, is an integral part of the serial number and can help identify the time period of the year of manufacture in many cases.

(BTW, you have to watch that Ed Tinker guy... sometimes he types with his tongue held in front of his eye tooth, and he can't see what he is saying... ... not me, I just occasionally open my mouth to change feet <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

[Vegas]

No letters where you described. When I disasembeled the gun I found other markings. On the inside above the trigger where your index finger sits there is a funny looking "Y" and small case letter"c" stamped.

[Vegas]

I you go into the tech. section under "Witness Marks" my barral matches example #3

[Vegas]

What does "Geladen" mean? Its written on the extractor mechanism.

[John Sabato]

"Loaded" It is written on the extractor so that you can view it when there is enough light to know there is a round in the chamber... in the dark, you can feel the raised extractor and know that the chamber contains a round...

Pretty ingenious for a pistol mechanism designed in 1898, eh?

[jamese]

Paul,
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your friend is way off base in his value estimate.

You will find no better experts than those here on the Forum to give you a ball park value of your gun.

Based on the Photos you posted, there is nothing unique, rare of unusual about your gun that can justify such a high evaluation.

In fact, if the gun were a perfect specimen, (which yours is not) it would not command $3,000+ price tag

Is there something else known about the gun that you did not mention?

I will reserve giving my option of the value, because of the conflict of interest. However, I would invite anyone else who collects early pieces to give their option.

[Lugerdoc]

Paul, Even if your luger is matching, given its condition, I agree with James that it would be gone if I owned it for any offer over about $850. TH

[Vegas]

The estimate of $3400-$5000 I'm sure is way off. I'm not doubting that this pistol might only be worth $850, and I'm for sure not trying to question the experts advise here on this forum. Eveyone has been super nice and helpful. I'm just here to get some help to identify this piece more accurately and get a fair asking price. I'm not here to make a quick buck, after all I've been a gun enthusiast for some 15 years now, and only want to sell this pistol to someone who will have a little more appreciation for it than I do. I collect newer firearms and very much enjoy them. Hopefully I will be posting more detailed pictures tonight. I have an older digi camera that doesn't take close up pictures. Look for some new pics tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again for being patient. Paul