9mm Nato Ammo

Thor · 08-03-2002, 10:11 AM

Winchester makes a +p+ load with a 124 gr at 1235 fps which the box says LE ONLY. But I see where it is offered by supply houses and auctions. I just wondered if there is a law about this ammo or is it just labeling? Seems like it would be perfect for Artillery Models with a stiff spring. I usually fire a hand load about like this (124 at 1200 fps) one if my UMC 124 gr at 1110 fps won't work the action properly (cases eject soft or not at all)

Doubs · 08-03-2002, 01:20 PM

Thor, to the best of my knowledge there is no law concerning small arms ammunition that prevents such +P+ 9mm from being sold to the public. When Winchester withdrew "Black Talon" ammo from the market and restricted it to LE sales, it was strictly a voluntary action as a result of the bad publicity - almost all of it BS without basis in truth - created by the media and anti-gun politicians. Similar products such as "Golden Sabre" and "Gold Dot" were being sold without similar media attention or hype.

I agree that a 124 grain bullet at 1235 FPS is closely duplicating the original German military 9mm round and should function fine in the Artillery models.

AGE · 08-04-2002, 12:03 AM

Guys,

A few things occurred to me. In certain places (New Jersey for instance) civilians cannot have hollowpoint ammo and maybe other types of ammo. Perhaps +P+ in the public hands is viewed as dangerous and illegal somewhere so the ammo companies won't sell to civilians.

Also, there are a lot of cheap and old 9 mm handguns out there (someone might place Lugers in this category) while the cops have strong late model guns. Maybe the companies are afraid the +P+ stuff will be used in unsafe guns by civilians.

Kyrie · 08-04-2002, 07:52 PM

Hi Ted!

There is no US standard for Ã¢??+P+Ã¢?? ammunition, so there is no way to tell how such ammunition is loaded. All the Ã¢??+P+Ã¢?? marking tells us is that the ammunition is non-compliant with any US standard. IÃ¢??d avoid it like the plague :-)

Warm regards,

Kyrie

08-03-2002, 10:11 AM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	9mm Nato Ammo Winchester makes a +p+ load with a 124 gr at 1235 fps which the box says LE ONLY. But I see where it is offered by supply houses and auctions. I just wondered if there is a law about this ammo or is it just labeling? Seems like it would be perfect for Artillery Models with a stiff spring. I usually fire a hand load about like this (124 at 1200 fps) one if my UMC 124 gr at 1110 fps won't work the action properly (cases eject soft or not at all) __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-04-2002, 12:03 AM	#3
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys, A few things occurred to me. In certain places (New Jersey for instance) civilians cannot have hollowpoint ammo and maybe other types of ammo. Perhaps +P+ in the public hands is viewed as dangerous and illegal somewhere so the ammo companies won't sell to civilians. Also, there are a lot of cheap and old 9 mm handguns out there (someone might place Lugers in this category) while the cops have strong late model guns. Maybe the companies are afraid the +P+ stuff will be used in unsafe guns by civilians. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

08-03-2002, 01:20 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Thor, to the best of my knowledge there is no law concerning small arms ammunition that prevents such +P+ 9mm from being sold to the public. When Winchester withdrew "Black Talon" ammo from the market and restricted it to LE sales, it was strictly a voluntary action as a result of the bad publicity - almost all of it BS without basis in truth - created by the media and anti-gun politicians. Similar products such as "Golden Sabre" and "Gold Dot" were being sold without similar media attention or hype. I agree that a 124 grain bullet at 1235 FPS is closely duplicating the original German military 9mm round and should function fine in the Artillery models.

08-04-2002, 07:52 PM	#4
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Hi Ted! There is no US standard for Ã¢??+P+Ã¢?? ammunition, so there is no way to tell how such ammunition is loaded. All the Ã¢??+P+Ã¢?? marking tells us is that the ammunition is non-compliant with any US standard. IÃ¢??d avoid it like the plague :-) Warm regards, Kyrie