DWM Commercial Survey--call for data - Page 2

Weasel505 · 06-29-2009, 11:46 AM

...on my 1900 American Eagle (#2029), I think last November. I've never seen it in the database.

Would you like me to resend? Please advise. Thanks.

Weasel

FNorm · 06-29-2009, 04:06 PM

1920, DWM, 7.65
9639m
Upright c/n L. receiver, and underside of barrel
Sear relived
'Germany' on front frame, under the serial #, just above the trigger guard
No chamber mark
Safe loaded in german

Lazy c/N on left breech block over a c/E. May be an Erfurt eagle
another lazy c/N on mid toggle left side

Weasel505 · 07-01-2009, 02:16 PM

I hope this goes thru:

1900 (Old Model):
*serial number #2029
*variation
...AE (American Eagle on chamber)
*proof marks, left receiver and barrel
...no proof marks
*Swiss cross + on barrel? YES
*grip safety
...narrow N (extends halfway across grip strap)
*Thumb safety type
...type 2, raised-checkered
*Where is the takedown lever numbered?
...right, round end R
*Stamped GERMANY or not?
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

HTH.

Weasel

Pistol · 12-30-2009, 02:04 AM

DWM Commercial - 1911 (?)

*serial number: 58851
*proof marks on left receiver: crown over Lazy N
*Stamped GERMANY: No
*Recoil spring well spur or straight: Spur
*c/X c/X c/X military proofs: No Military Proofs
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics:
(1) All matching serial numbers (including grips); Mag #1 no serial # on wood base; Mag #2 serial number indicates police mag
(2) Unrelieved sear and no hold-open
(3) Non-reinforced frame.
(4) Gun captured by a Third Infantry Division GI during the liberation of Munich late April or early May 1945; Came with 1911 AWM holster marked 16.J.R.1.B and 2.B.J.R. IIB. The owner claimed to be the mayor or vice mayor of Munich.
(5) Blue fire color visible on one grip screw; rear toggle pin, mag & sear springs

sheepherder · 02-06-2011, 05:07 PM

I thought I had submitted my alphabet 4-digit commercial, but I don't see it in V4, so here it is...

*serial number, with letter suffix - 6782n
*proof marks, left receiver--crown over N, upright? - yes
*right receiver proofs? - no
*blank toggle? - DWM toggle
*Caliber .30 or 9mm? - 30 cal
*Export marked?
...GERMANY - yes
...location of stamp - left frame rail above takedown lever
*Chamber marked? - no
*Blank toggle? DWM toggle? - DWM
*Eagle/WaA right receiver proof? - no
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics - C/N [upright], 6782, n --> on bottom of barrel

ABAD · 03-09-2011, 06:52 AM

The first:
*serial number, with letter suffix: 6439 o
*proof marks, left receiver--crown over N, upright
*right receiver proofs?. No
*blank toggle: No, DWM toggle
*Caliber .30 or 9mm?. 0.30
*Export marked? No
*Krieghoff Suhl back-frame marked?: No
*Safe/Loaded?: I German
* DWM toggle
*Eagle/WaA right receiver proof: No
*Police characteristics: No
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics: Wood bottom magazine, 6439o and C/N in the bottom of the barrel.

The second:
*serial number, with letter suffix: 7529 u
*proof marks, left receiver: crown over N, upright
*right receiver proofs: No
*blank toggle?: No
*Caliber .30 or 9mm? 9mm
*Export marked: No
*Krieghoff Suhl back-frame marked: No
*Chamber marked:No
*Safe/Loaded: In German
DWM toggle
*Eagle/WaA right receiver proof: No
*Police characteristics: No
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics: Wood bottom magazine without marks. 7529u with C/N in the bottom of the barrel
Josep M.

mjanway · 03-09-2011, 03:23 PM

*8317i
*crown over N is upright
*right receiver blank
*toggle marked DWM
*.30
* MADE IN GERMANY on frame front of the grips
* no Krieghoff Suhl
* no chamber markings
* no Finnish
* no A.F. Stoeger
* GELADEN
* DWM toggle
* no Eagle
* no Police
* thumb safety safe in rear position marked GESICHERT

the data base is quite impressive

mjanway · 03-09-2011, 03:26 PM

One last addition to 8317i - crown over N also on bottom of barrel under serial number.

mjanway · 03-21-2011, 09:49 PM

I have yet another addition to add for the 8317i. Located another N under Crown, sideways, on the left side of the forward toggle link.

Jack

mjanway · 03-22-2011, 08:50 PM

One final addition to the 8317i.

The first two digits of the serial number, 83, appear on the inside of the trigger plate.

Jack

cmdinphx · 05-28-2014, 01:17 AM

Serial #: 8960m
Proof: c/N upright
Toggle: DWM
Export mark: Made in Germany, right side of receiver, very faint
Caliber: .30 Luger

hawaiico · 12-20-2009, 05:09 PM

Not quite sure how to add to the database? But, here's one more that is not included:
DWM 1921 SN: 87191

wlyon · 04-11-2010, 12:58 PM

Dwight
Local gunshow today. 1906 AE serial # 35060. Germany on front of frame. Overall 80% or so. All visable numbers match. Bill

Don M · 04-11-2010, 02:42 PM

Dwight, see http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23910

Sam Steele · 05-31-2010, 11:17 PM

Hi Gents,

I have a Model 1900................
Serial # 4129
8th Variation
Commercial
BUG proofed
GERMANY marked too!
Narrow grip safety
Type 1 thumb safety
Relieved frame
Take-down lever numbered on bottom
IDEAL grips!

Possibly assembled in 1905, but sent to North America, where it picked up the IDEAL grips. Too bad the stock isn't with it.

Cheers,

Bill

MFC · 06-01-2010, 12:46 AM

Hi Bill,
M1900 S#4129 with early features predates the US Test Eagles.
What makes you say "Possibly assembled in 1905"?

Sam Steele · 06-01-2010, 09:01 AM

Hi Mike,

As a guideline used by Bobba in his book, that serial number range if applied by DWM outside the Swiss pistols, would place it at being assembled in 1905. As the various parts are first series, first variation (save for the relieved frame), I take it to mean that the parts are from 1900-1901, hence Bobba's definition of "Eighth Variation".

The BUG proofs were only required for the European market, and were no doubt applied at the time of manufacture. When the pistol was sold to a North American customer, the Americans placed the "GERMANY" marking on it, as per their regulations governing imported firearms. As I said, the IDEAL grips are a logical addition by the owner on this side of the Atlantic, though sadly the actual holster section is no longer with the pistol.

I have it presently for sale here in Canada, and while the interest would be much greater in the U.S., the paper trail to send it to the States would be "less smooth" than here.

Cheers,

Bill

Ron Wood · 06-01-2010, 11:40 AM

Bill,

Good luck on the sale of your 1900 Commercial. That is a nice early serial number and great early features...a Type I safety is really neat. Commercial pieces are not common on this side of the puddle, the majority are American Eagle. The Ideal grips are a nice bonus, but unfortunately the stock is the hard part to find.

One slight comment, the GERMANY marking was an export stamp and was applied in Germany, not the US.

Sam Steele · 06-01-2010, 03:18 PM

Thanks for the info on the GERMANY marking, Ron....I didn't know that!

An IDEAL stock was seen fairly recently at a local Show. Perhaps it will reappear at our next Show this coming Sunday. It would be nice to "marry up" the IDEAL bits before she sells.

Cheers,

Bill

MFC · 06-02-2010, 01:20 AM

Bill,
Thanks for the response, but I'm even more confused now. I'm sure it would help me understand if I had Bobba's book, which I don't.
Were the S#'s applied to the parts in 1900/1901, and the gun assembled and finished in 1905, out of sequence? What am I missing?

07-01-2009, 02:16 PM	#3
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My Commercial Info I hope this goes thru: 1900 (Old Model): serial number #2029 variation ...AE (American Eagle on chamber) proof marks, left receiver and barrel ...no proof marks Swiss cross + on barrel? YES grip safety ...narrow N (extends halfway across grip strap) Thumb safety type ...type 2, raised-checkered Where is the takedown lever numbered? ...right, round end R Stamped GERMANY or not? *Any additional noteworthy characteristics HTH. Weasel

02-06-2011, 05:07 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I thought I had submitted my alphabet 4-digit commercial, but I don't see it in V4, so here it is... serial number, with letter suffix - 6782n proof marks, left receiver--crown over N, upright? - yes right receiver proofs? - no blank toggle? - DWM toggle Caliber .30 or 9mm? - 30 cal Export marked? ...GERMANY - yes ...location of stamp - left frame rail above takedown lever Chamber marked? - no Blank toggle? DWM toggle? - DWM Eagle/WaA right receiver proof? - no Any additional noteworthy characteristics - C/N [upright], 6782, n --> on bottom of barrel __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-09-2011, 06:52 AM	#6
ABAD New User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Catalunya, Spain Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	2 more. The first: serial number, with letter suffix: 6439 o proof marks, left receiver--crown over N, upright right receiver proofs?. No blank toggle: No, DWM toggle Caliber .30 or 9mm?. 0.30 Export marked? No Krieghoff Suhl back-frame marked?: No Safe/Loaded?: I German * DWM toggle Eagle/WaA right receiver proof: No Police characteristics: No Any additional noteworthy characteristics: Wood bottom magazine, 6439o and C/N in the bottom of the barrel. The second: serial number, with letter suffix: 7529 u proof marks, left receiver: crown over N, upright right receiver proofs: No blank toggle?: No Caliber .30 or 9mm? 9mm Export marked: No Krieghoff Suhl back-frame marked: No Chamber marked:No Safe/Loaded: In German DWM toggle Eagle/WaA right receiver proof: No Police characteristics: No *Any additional noteworthy characteristics: Wood bottom magazine without marks. 7529u with C/N in the bottom of the barrel Josep M.

03-09-2011, 03:23 PM	#7
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Alphabet Commercial 8317i crown over N is upright right receiver blank toggle marked DWM .30 MADE IN GERMANY on frame front of the grips * no Krieghoff Suhl * no chamber markings * no Finnish * no A.F. Stoeger * GELADEN * DWM toggle * no Eagle * no Police * thumb safety safe in rear position marked GESICHERT the data base is quite impressive

03-09-2011, 03:26 PM	#8
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Alphabet Commercial One last addition to 8317i - crown over N also on bottom of barrel under serial number.

06-29-2009, 11:46 AM	#1
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I did send my data... ...on my 1900 American Eagle (#2029), I think last November. I've never seen it in the database. Would you like me to resend? Please advise. Thanks. Weasel

06-29-2009, 04:06 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	1920, DWM, 7.65 9639m Upright c/n L. receiver, and underside of barrel Sear relived 'Germany' on front frame, under the serial #, just above the trigger guard No chamber mark Safe loaded in german Lazy c/N on left breech block over a c/E. May be an Erfurt eagle another lazy c/N on mid toggle left side

12-30-2009, 02:04 AM	#4
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 432 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Commercial DWM 1911(?) DWM Commercial - 1911 (?) serial number: 58851* proof marks on left receiver: crown over Lazy N* Stamped GERMANY: No Recoil spring well spur or straight: Spur c/X c/X c/X military proofs: No Military Proofs* *Any additional noteworthy characteristics: (1) All matching serial numbers (including grips); Mag #1 no serial # on wood base; Mag #2 serial number indicates police mag (2) Unrelieved sear and no hold-open (3) Non-reinforced frame. (4) Gun captured by a Third Infantry Division GI during the liberation of Munich late April or early May 1945; Came with 1911 AWM holster marked 16.J.R.1.B and 2.B.J.R. IIB. The owner claimed to be the mayor or vice mayor of Munich. (5) Blue fire color visible on one grip screw; rear toggle pin, mag & sear springs

03-21-2011, 09:49 PM	#9
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Alphabet Commercial I have yet another addition to add for the 8317i. Located another N under Crown, sideways, on the left side of the forward toggle link. Jack

03-22-2011, 08:50 PM	#10
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Alphabet Commercial One final addition to the 8317i. The first two digits of the serial number, 83, appear on the inside of the trigger plate. Jack

05-28-2014, 01:17 AM	#11
cmdinphx User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 14 Thanks: 13 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	1920 Alphabet Commercial info for database Serial #: 8960m Proof: c/N upright Toggle: DWM Export mark: Made in Germany, right side of receiver, very faint Caliber: .30 Luger

12-20-2009, 05:09 PM	#12
hawaiico User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 11 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwm 1921 Not quite sure how to add to the database? But, here's one more that is not included: DWM 1921 SN: 87191

04-11-2010, 12:58 PM	#13
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Dwight Local gunshow today. 1906 AE serial # 35060. Germany on front of frame. Overall 80% or so. All visable numbers match. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-11-2010, 02:42 PM	#14
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Dwight, see http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23910 __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

05-31-2010, 11:17 PM	#15
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Gents, I have a Model 1900................ Serial # 4129 8th Variation Commercial BUG proofed GERMANY marked too! Narrow grip safety Type 1 thumb safety Relieved frame Take-down lever numbered on bottom IDEAL grips! Possibly assembled in 1905, but sent to North America, where it picked up the IDEAL grips. Too bad the stock isn't with it. Cheers, Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

06-01-2010, 12:46 AM	#16
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Bill, M1900 S#4129 with early features predates the US Test Eagles. What makes you say "Possibly assembled in 1905"? __________________ Mike C.

06-01-2010, 09:01 AM	#17
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Mike, As a guideline used by Bobba in his book, that serial number range if applied by DWM outside the Swiss pistols, would place it at being assembled in 1905. As the various parts are first series, first variation (save for the relieved frame), I take it to mean that the parts are from 1900-1901, hence Bobba's definition of "Eighth Variation". The BUG proofs were only required for the European market, and were no doubt applied at the time of manufacture. When the pistol was sold to a North American customer, the Americans placed the "GERMANY" marking on it, as per their regulations governing imported firearms. As I said, the IDEAL grips are a logical addition by the owner on this side of the Atlantic, though sadly the actual holster section is no longer with the pistol. I have it presently for sale here in Canada, and while the interest would be much greater in the U.S., the paper trail to send it to the States would be "less smooth" than here. Cheers, Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

06-01-2010, 11:40 AM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Bill, Good luck on the sale of your 1900 Commercial. That is a nice early serial number and great early features...a Type I safety is really neat. Commercial pieces are not common on this side of the puddle, the majority are American Eagle. The Ideal grips are a nice bonus, but unfortunately the stock is the hard part to find. One slight comment, the GERMANY marking was an export stamp and was applied in Germany, not the US. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-01-2010, 03:18 PM	#19
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for the info on the GERMANY marking, Ron....I didn't know that! An IDEAL stock was seen fairly recently at a local Show. Perhaps it will reappear at our next Show this coming Sunday. It would be nice to "marry up" the IDEAL bits before she sells. Cheers, Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

06-02-2010, 01:20 AM	#20
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Bill, Thanks for the response, but I'm even more confused now. I'm sure it would help me understand if I had Bobba's book, which I don't. Were the S#'s applied to the parts in 1900/1901, and the gun assembled and finished in 1905, out of sequence? What am I missing? __________________ Mike C.