Portuguese Cleaning Rod/Oiler...?

Pete Ebbink · 09-15-2003, 08:34 PM

Would like to get confirmation about what constitutes an authentic Portuguese cleaning rod/oiler from a "repro" unit...

Photo # 1 is what I believe to be a real unit.

Photo # 2 is what I have been told is a repro unit (in my collection).

Main difference is the pattern of "checkering" on the "lid" of the oil can...

Would appreciate your comments and knowledge...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Big Norm · 09-15-2003, 10:01 PM

Pete,
Walthers book has a nice discussion on pages 269-270. The pictures that he shows are poor but does barely show the checkering on the rod that you are talking about.
Big Norm

Lugerdoc · 09-16-2003, 08:12 AM

Pete, IMHO your first photo shows the fine checkered DWM commerical cap, which I believe to be correct for the M1906 Portugese lugers. The GNRs (1935) usually have a cap with courser checkering and a steel rod (vise brass). The serrated (non checkered) cap shown in your second photo, is one that I've never seen before, but probably of non-German origin. TH

John Sabato · 09-16-2003, 10:25 AM

Just a note for those who like technical details...

The "Checkering" and also the "splines" or straight lines on the second cap example are impressed on these parts by a process known as "Knurling" The target piece is rotated and pressed under HARD pressure against a movable device that contains two or more rollers with the opposite impressions made in much harder material... It is the same process that is often used to make similar impression on cylindrical metal tool handles... The process is generally accomplished in a lathe. Pressure is applied until the impressions on the target piece are made to a satisfactory depth.

My late friend and gunsmith John Dusing used to make his custom gun screwdriver handles this way out of aluminum or steel rod. Anytime John found a screw for which he did not have a screwdriver that fit PERFECTLY, he would grab an appropriate piece of drill rod and make the screwdriver complete with a fine knurled metal handle... He passed away around 1983... I sure miss that guy and the stories he used to tell

Big Norm · 09-16-2003, 11:48 PM

I recently have seen an oiler with checkered sides on the cap. It also had some letters and numbers of the top of the cap. Too bad that I didn't write them down. Would this indicate anything?
Big Norm

Lugerdoc · 09-17-2003, 09:26 AM

Norm, Quite often the Portugese made oilers will have some of the following inspectors marks, which are also common on their magazines: kk/5 or 10 in a circle & 9 or 19 in a circle. TH

Big Norm · 09-17-2003, 11:22 PM

I am really confused now. Today I went to a friends house to look at an oiler that he has for sale. I hit upon a combination of Pete's oiler with the perpendicular serrated or spline sides on the oil container and TomH proof marks. The oiler that I saw today had serrated sides (not checkered) where the splines were about 45 degrees slanted and not perpendicular as is Petes. But I saw the inspectors marks that TomH mentioned. The marks were a circled 'KK10' (very small) and also a '5'. These marks where on the bottom of the oil container or handle and not on the cap as I first thought. The rod was made of steel and was able to be unscrewed from the oil container or handle.

I may be confused too about the dripper within the oil container within the lid too. Pictures in my books look like a tiny spoon. But the one that I saw today just had a triagular tip. But that could be just the photography angle within the book.

I have to reread John Walters book (pg 269-270) but I THINK that, if anything, this would be either a commercial or a 1936 Portuguese oiler. Correct me if I am wrong.
Big Norm

Lugerdoc · 09-18-2003, 09:36 AM

Norm, All of the oil applications tips that I've seen, whether DWM or Portugese, were flat with a tapered arrow shape. If your friend's rod is steel with Portugese proofs, it is undoubtably of Portugese manufacture. TH.

09-15-2003, 08:34 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Portuguese Cleaning Rod/Oiler...? Would like to get confirmation about what constitutes an authentic Portuguese cleaning rod/oiler from a "repro" unit... Photo # 1 is what I believe to be a real unit. Photo # 2 is what I have been told is a repro unit (in my collection). Main difference is the pattern of "checkering" on the "lid" of the oil can... Would appreciate your comments and knowledge... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-16-2003, 08:12 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Pete, IMHO your first photo shows the fine checkered DWM commerical cap, which I believe to be correct for the M1906 Portugese lugers. The GNRs (1935) usually have a cap with courser checkering and a steel rod (vise brass). The serrated (non checkered) cap shown in your second photo, is one that I've never seen before, but probably of non-German origin. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-16-2003, 10:25 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Just a note for those who like technical details... The "Checkering" and also the "splines" or straight lines on the second cap example are impressed on these parts by a process known as "Knurling" The target piece is rotated and pressed under HARD pressure against a movable device that contains two or more rollers with the opposite impressions made in much harder material... It is the same process that is often used to make similar impression on cylindrical metal tool handles... The process is generally accomplished in a lathe. Pressure is applied until the impressions on the target piece are made to a satisfactory depth. My late friend and gunsmith John Dusing used to make his custom gun screwdriver handles this way out of aluminum or steel rod. Anytime John found a screw for which he did not have a screwdriver that fit PERFECTLY, he would grab an appropriate piece of drill rod and make the screwdriver complete with a fine knurled metal handle... He passed away around 1983... I sure miss that guy and the stories he used to tell __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-17-2003, 09:26 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Norm, Quite often the Portugese made oilers will have some of the following inspectors marks, which are also common on their magazines: kk/5 or 10 in a circle & 9 or 19 in a circle. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-18-2003, 09:36 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Norm, All of the oil applications tips that I've seen, whether DWM or Portugese, were flat with a tapered arrow shape. If your friend's rod is steel with Portugese proofs, it is undoubtably of Portugese manufacture. TH. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-15-2003, 10:01 PM	#2
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, Walthers book has a nice discussion on pages 269-270. The pictures that he shows are poor but does barely show the checkering on the rod that you are talking about. Big Norm

09-16-2003, 11:48 PM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I recently have seen an oiler with checkered sides on the cap. It also had some letters and numbers of the top of the cap. Too bad that I didn't write them down. Would this indicate anything? Big Norm

09-17-2003, 11:22 PM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I am really confused now. Today I went to a friends house to look at an oiler that he has for sale. I hit upon a combination of Pete's oiler with the perpendicular serrated or spline sides on the oil container and TomH proof marks. The oiler that I saw today had serrated sides (not checkered) where the splines were about 45 degrees slanted and not perpendicular as is Petes. But I saw the inspectors marks that TomH mentioned. The marks were a circled 'KK10' (very small) and also a '5'. These marks where on the bottom of the oil container or handle and not on the cap as I first thought. The rod was made of steel and was able to be unscrewed from the oil container or handle. I may be confused too about the dripper within the oil container within the lid too. Pictures in my books look like a tiny spoon. But the one that I saw today just had a triagular tip. But that could be just the photography angle within the book. I have to reread John Walters book (pg 269-270) but I THINK that, if anything, this would be either a commercial or a 1936 Portuguese oiler. Correct me if I am wrong. Big Norm