"Fake" American Eagles?

[Jasta2]

Still on a learning curve here. I was quite put aback buy the postings on Fake Navies and how some well know collectors have passed them on as the real thing while being fooled themselves. Has any American Eagles been faked? I take the eagle stamp must be out there. I have though on making the jump to buying a "Real" collector grade or at least original (still not cheap) Navy or AE, but holding back. I collected original WW1 pilot badges and a few WW2, but now the market is flooded with copies/fakes. Most sold as copies,but many as originals worth $$$. I guess after East Germany became part of Gemany again, many of the original dies/tooling for the badges were found and the latest repos fool many long time collectors,so I will just sit on the originals I have not willing to be fooled. It was sad to read that this has happened to the world of Lugers. Mismatched Luger shooters can bring $1,000 and I see the most matching run of the mill Lugers are in the $1.500 to $2,500 and the more rare verisons $5,000 to the skys the limit. Far cry from my first Dbl Date for $150. Then again, my on $2,000 1967 Jaguar XKE roadster I bought and sold for around $2,000 in the early 70's is now fetching over $50k. Anyway, I will do as others, I'll ask you guys for advice first before I plop do any dough.
Great Forum!
Thanks,Bill

[John Sabato]

Hi Bill,

as to your question, I have not personally seen an example of a faked AE eagle stamp, but that is no guarantee that it hasn't happened. Perhaps some of the other grey bearded collectors who post here can comment of the existence of faked AE Lugers...

You are correct to be afraid... Very afraid to act on a large dollar purchase without obtaining the wisdom of many eyes... always get good photos... in sharp focus, of all the critical areas.

[Edward Tinker]

An average, fairly nice AE is unlikely to be faked, why would it? One that is "pristine" or special like a Fat Barrel, sure. I think that a commercial luger could have its value lifted a couple of hundred by being "faked" AE stamped, but is that worth it to a faker? They'd have to have the stamp, stamp it, make it look older, all for a couple of hundred bucks.


Fakes have been out there since the 1940's, same with colt SAA's, with 1911's etc. And I hear folks say, they are afraid to buy more. I have to assume folks are talking, high dollar, pristine examples, because the fakers aren't faking the others (little profit)

[Jasta2]

John and Edward, Thank you for the quick replies. I see your point on why should someone not want to fake a lower priced Luger. Lots of risk, little gain. Is the Eagle stamped on the Mictchel/Stoeger stainless Lugers the same size as the originals? I never had the chance to compair the two together. I see very few of the stainless Lugers for sale. At one point they were everywhere. Are the stainless Lugers truly out of production? I read somewhere online that they are still being made in small batches.
Tks,Bill

[John Sabato]

You can find photographs of both the stainless and original eagle stamps in the Members Gallery where you can make your own comparisons...

Just do a search on "eagle" and "stainless"

Here are a couple of photos from the gallery to show that they are NOT close...

Enjoy

[alvin]

Jasta2 -- I am new in this field as well. I saw people collecting wristwatches in the past, the whole thing from case, to crystal, to hands, to movement could be fake. But I have never seen this type of scenario in gun world. It's more common to "boost" a gun -- reblue, forced matching, etc. The highest realm of boosting is creating a new variation, but that seldomly creates trouble for newbies like you and me, because we usually start from small and avoid "one-of-a-kind" type thing. I assume people checking Eagle crest carefully having a purpose -- it's a key area can be used to identify previous sanding.

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
An average, fairly nice AE is unlikely to be faked, why would it? One that is "pristine" or special like a Fat Barrel, sure. I think that a commercial luger could have its value lifted a couple of hundred by being "faked" AE stamped, but is that worth it to a faker?

Actually, my understanding is that Fat Barrel Commercials are less common than FB AEs. Much easier to fake, with no need to add the Eagle.

The only AE I can think of which would be worthwhile to fake would be an Alphabet Commercial or a very late 20DWM, which show up very sporadically with American Eagles on the chambers, possibly as factory special orders. They would be more convincing with SAFE/LOADED. A very serious possibility of fakery would be an A.F. Stoeger marked gun with an AE. Fortunately with all these examples the number of tell-tales increases with the amount of forgery necessary.

--Dwight

[Navy]

As far as "creating a new variation"; it has happened on several occasions. Some of the older reference books depict variations that were made from whole cloth. Others capitalized on this. Whether there was colusion is up for conjecture.

Tom A