Help with a Navy and a 1900AE

Jasta2 · 03-05-2008, 02:30 PM

As I am just able to return to collecting Lugers, I am very surprized at their increased values. After reading many post here, I have came to be quite suspect in buying. Hope this is not an unfair question. My first hopes were to obtain any models of the following, a Navy,a 1900 and a American Eagle for a start to my collection. I cannot afford any high end Lugers at this point, so just as long as they matched as original, finish (unless very poor) is not important. Two items at auction now on Gun Broker are a 1900 American Eagle #93689282 and a 1908 Navy #93747422. I am most suspect of the Navy after reading the resent postings here. Might someone of knowledge that a look at these two and give me their opinion? Not asking of value as that would seem unfair. Many have told be that value in collecting whatever you collect is getting the best quaility, but 1 Luger at $6,000 makes a small collection, while 3 at $2,000 ea. or 4 at $1,500 would be more enjoyable, maybe not at upgrade time!
Thanks for your imput
Bill Butcher USCG Ret. (er? semi retired)

Edward Tinker · 03-05-2008, 09:56 PM

Bill welcome to the forum. You are welcome to post direct links here so folks don't have to search for the item and look at it.

There are no cheap navies, I sold one that was not in the best of shape, but original and it was just under 3K.

Many times our members will have items for sale, so check our trader section.

Ed

alvin · 03-05-2008, 11:04 PM

I'm learning Lugers..... Please correct me if I am wrong:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=93747422

This Navy has a serious problem: the receiver is shorter than the frame in the front. A "washer" is used to align them.

The grips could be replacement. Looks new for the overall condition.

Big Norm · 03-05-2008, 11:26 PM

Bill,
for a while, I was looking at that 1908 navy. Then I noticed a few things that made me pass on it. For one, the barrel and the frame did not even come close in finish. There seemed to be light freckling rust on the frame while the barrel looked pretty good. Also, there wasn't a serial number on the barrel. Proof marks, yes. Serial number, no. I didn't seem to get pictures number 6 through 12. I don't know if this is a problem with my computer or if the pictures were not supplied. Pictures numbered 1 through 5 were pretty dark. If you want to get the big dollars that some Lugers command then you had better supply some good pictures.

I passed on it because I felt that the frame, receiver and toggle might be legit but the barrel has been replaced. The bidder has an unknown reserve on the gun and, I think, the last bid of $1500 did not meet the unknown reserve. The seller seemed to indicate that he didn't know much about Lugers, so I assume that his reserve price was in the 'all matching' stratosphere that navy Lugers demand. So collectors just gave up on it.

I hope that this helps.
Big Norm

_______________
Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Big Norm · 03-05-2008, 11:46 PM

Bill,
after reading Alvins post, I compared one of my 1908 navies to the 'for sale' navy and I can see that he made a very good point. While the frame has the appropriate long frame, someone did some messing around on the front of the receiver. I didn't bother looking at the grips.
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 03-05-2008, 11:49 PM

Alvin spotted the big problem with the Navy. Its too bad the barrel replacement involved such a radical rework of the receiver because the rest of the gun doesn't look too bad. As it is, any collector value is gone.

The 1900 Eagle looks to be a legitimate piece, and from what I have seen of this seller's wares he usually has good stuff and provides decent photos. However, considering the overall condition of the gun, I would think a price around $2700 +/- should be top dollar.

Big Norm · 03-06-2008, 12:46 AM

Geez! The great Ron Wood beat me to the punch and stole my thunder. My pricing on American Eagles might be dated, but I think that $2,000 would be a more appropriate price given the condition of this gun. I got a very nice 1906 AE for $2600 last year. But pricing of Lugers is pretty much a work of art by the seller, a work of desire by the buyer and an opportunity for one of them.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=93689282

Even thought this gun is over a hundred years old, commercial Lugers of this era can be found in pretty good shape. But please note the pictures of this gun. They are what one should expect when paying this sort of money for any gun. While they are good, I would like to see more of them. But if Ron Wood says that this dealer is a good guy, then believe it.
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 03-06-2008, 01:19 AM

Didn't say he is a good guy...I haven't had any dealings with him. I am only going by some of the items I have seen offered on Gunbroker which looked legitimate and the quality of the photos he uses is usually pretty good. I would also be much more comfortable with $2000 for the gun, but I can't keep up with pricing as it is escalating so fast. I routinely see guns going for $500-$1000 more than I think they are worth and they sell! Your $2600 for a nice 1906 is a good buy, but you aren't going to find a 1900 in that condition for anywhere near that price...a 1900 is a premium item. I like your quote: "pricing of Lugers is pretty much a work of art by the seller, a work of desire by the buyer and an opportunity for one of them"...amen!

Navy · 03-06-2008, 10:33 AM

Jasts,

Before you spend $$ on a Navy, pls print out and read the piece I wrote that is posted as a permanent "sticky" on how to validate the originality of a Navy piece. It could save you money and buyer's remorse.

Tom A

cirelaw · 03-06-2008, 04:26 PM

Can someone please post what a fine 1908 navy is suppose to look like. Not one pictured in a book or site, for obvious reasons.

03-05-2008, 02:30 PM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Help with a Navy and a 1900AE As I am just able to return to collecting Lugers, I am very surprized at their increased values. After reading many post here, I have came to be quite suspect in buying. Hope this is not an unfair question. My first hopes were to obtain any models of the following, a Navy,a 1900 and a American Eagle for a start to my collection. I cannot afford any high end Lugers at this point, so just as long as they matched as original, finish (unless very poor) is not important. Two items at auction now on Gun Broker are a 1900 American Eagle #93689282 and a 1908 Navy #93747422. I am most suspect of the Navy after reading the resent postings here. Might someone of knowledge that a look at these two and give me their opinion? Not asking of value as that would seem unfair. Many have told be that value in collecting whatever you collect is getting the best quaility, but 1 Luger at $6,000 makes a small collection, while 3 at $2,000 ea. or 4 at $1,500 would be more enjoyable, maybe not at upgrade time! Thanks for your imput Bill Butcher USCG Ret. (er? semi retired)

03-05-2008, 09:56 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Bill welcome to the forum. You are welcome to post direct links here so folks don't have to search for the item and look at it. There are no cheap navies, I sold one that was not in the best of shape, but original and it was just under 3K. Many times our members will have items for sale, so check our trader section. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-05-2008, 11:49 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Alvin spotted the big problem with the Navy. Its too bad the barrel replacement involved such a radical rework of the receiver because the rest of the gun doesn't look too bad. As it is, any collector value is gone. The 1900 Eagle looks to be a legitimate piece, and from what I have seen of this seller's wares he usually has good stuff and provides decent photos. However, considering the overall condition of the gun, I would think a price around $2700 +/- should be top dollar. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-06-2008, 01:19 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Didn't say he is a good guy...I haven't had any dealings with him. I am only going by some of the items I have seen offered on Gunbroker which looked legitimate and the quality of the photos he uses is usually pretty good. I would also be much more comfortable with $2000 for the gun, but I can't keep up with pricing as it is escalating so fast. I routinely see guns going for $500-$1000 more than I think they are worth and they sell! Your $2600 for a nice 1906 is a good buy, but you aren't going to find a 1900 in that condition for anywhere near that price...a 1900 is a premium item. I like your quote: "pricing of Lugers is pretty much a work of art by the seller, a work of desire by the buyer and an opportunity for one of them"...amen! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-05-2008, 11:04 PM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I'm learning Lugers..... Please correct me if I am wrong: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=93747422 This Navy has a serious problem: the receiver is shorter than the frame in the front. A "washer" is used to align them. The grips could be replacement. Looks new for the overall condition.

03-05-2008, 11:26 PM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Bill, for a while, I was looking at that 1908 navy. Then I noticed a few things that made me pass on it. For one, the barrel and the frame did not even come close in finish. There seemed to be light freckling rust on the frame while the barrel looked pretty good. Also, there wasn't a serial number on the barrel. Proof marks, yes. Serial number, no. I didn't seem to get pictures number 6 through 12. I don't know if this is a problem with my computer or if the pictures were not supplied. Pictures numbered 1 through 5 were pretty dark. If you want to get the big dollars that some Lugers command then you had better supply some good pictures. I passed on it because I felt that the frame, receiver and toggle might be legit but the barrel has been replaced. The bidder has an unknown reserve on the gun and, I think, the last bid of $1500 did not meet the unknown reserve. The seller seemed to indicate that he didn't know much about Lugers, so I assume that his reserve price was in the 'all matching' stratosphere that navy Lugers demand. So collectors just gave up on it. I hope that this helps. Big Norm _______________ Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

03-05-2008, 11:46 PM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Bill, after reading Alvins post, I compared one of my 1908 navies to the 'for sale' navy and I can see that he made a very good point. While the frame has the appropriate long frame, someone did some messing around on the front of the receiver. I didn't bother looking at the grips. Big Norm

03-06-2008, 12:46 AM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Geez! The great Ron Wood beat me to the punch and stole my thunder. My pricing on American Eagles might be dated, but I think that $2,000 would be a more appropriate price given the condition of this gun. I got a very nice 1906 AE for $2600 last year. But pricing of Lugers is pretty much a work of art by the seller, a work of desire by the buyer and an opportunity for one of them. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=93689282 Even thought this gun is over a hundred years old, commercial Lugers of this era can be found in pretty good shape. But please note the pictures of this gun. They are what one should expect when paying this sort of money for any gun. While they are good, I would like to see more of them. But if Ron Wood says that this dealer is a good guy, then believe it. Big Norm

03-06-2008, 10:33 AM	#9
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Jasts, Before you spend $$ on a Navy, pls print out and read the piece I wrote that is posted as a permanent "sticky" on how to validate the originality of a Navy piece. It could save you money and buyer's remorse. Tom A

03-06-2008, 04:26 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Can someone please post what a fine 1908 navy is suppose to look like. Not one pictured in a book or site, for obvious reasons.