"DWM" scroll toggle marking

drbuster · 10-14-2006, 10:26 AM

I have wondered for some time when the first classic DWM scroll marking appeared on the luger toggle. The early prototypes, such as the Borchardt-Luger #5, which some of us had the rare good fortune to see, does not have this scroll marking on the toggle. Did later prototypes have it? Does the first scroll marking on a luger appear with Swiss model 1900 #1? Does the DWM scroll marking appear on any other DWM produced pistols or rifles?

Dwight Gruber · 10-14-2006, 11:11 AM

Doc,

I'm interested in the answers to your questions as well. The only actual response I can provide is that the .32 cal. Browning-copy pocket auto DWM made for awhile has the DWM scroll on the left slide.

--Dwight

drbuster · 10-14-2006, 12:31 PM

Dwight, the .32 Browning copy was presumable made AFTER 1900. I was wondering if the DWM scroll appeared BEFORE 1900, or was the 1900 luger the first?

Mike Jones · 10-23-2006, 11:07 AM

The DWM logo was added at about sn 60, according to records and photos I have.

Mike Jones

John Sabato · 10-23-2006, 12:19 PM

Here is a good question for you...

Was the DWM logo, as used on the Luger toggle, ever used on the early Borchardt pistols, or any other DWM manufactured equipment or tools? ...and no, I don't know the answer.

Mike Jones · 10-23-2006, 12:27 PM

John,

No, it was never used on Borchardts. I have seen the logo on some tools. I have a set of calipers with their logo somewhere.

Regards,
Mike

Pete Ebbink · 10-23-2006, 01:53 PM

On page 172-173 of the Horst Rutsch book, "Faustfeuerwaffen Der Edigenossen"; there is a Swiss M1900, serial number 39 with a photo of the top of the toggle which shows the "DWM" scroll.

Mike Jones · 10-23-2006, 07:04 PM

Pete,

I have records of guns after #39 that have a blank toggle. So who knows, maybe 39 was changed at some point in CH.

Regards,
Mike Jones

Dwight Gruber · 10-23-2006, 07:11 PM

Pete,

Is that a Swiss Commercial or military?

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 10-23-2006, 10:10 PM

Dwight,

Photo shows a Swiss ordnance pistol.

Mike,

You could very well be correct as well.

drbuster · 10-23-2006, 11:45 PM

Mike, Thanks your invaluable information. This all gives credence to the Swiss luger "pre-production" piece pictured on page 51 of Lugers at Random IMHO.

Ron Wood · 10-24-2006, 01:37 AM

There is a rather scarce little booklet by Reinhard Kornmayer published in 1970 titled "Die Geschichte der Parabellum-Pistole in der Schweiz" that is a very concise but pretty comprehensive overview of Swiss Lugers. On page 39 there are several views of serial #01 Swiss Military (Ordonnanzpistole) that clearly shows the DWM scroll on the toggle link. The photo credit is: (Copyright H.B. Lockhoven "Waffen-Archiv").

Lugerdoc · 10-25-2006, 11:09 AM

The DWM name will be engraved on the right frame of Borchard pistols after 1 Jan 1897. Th

drbuster · 10-25-2006, 04:00 PM

Tom, My understanding is that the "DWM" engraved on the Borchardt is the name and not the scroll...am I correct?

Pete Ebbink · 01-01-2007, 03:17 PM

Booklet Ron Wood mentioned :

drbuster · 01-01-2007, 03:55 PM

Thanks, Pete. This the book I almost won on e-bay, written by Reinhard Kornmeyer. Would like to read a translated version, if it exists. It's apparently out of print.

10-24-2006, 01:37 AM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	There is a rather scarce little booklet by Reinhard Kornmayer published in 1970 titled "Die Geschichte der Parabellum-Pistole in der Schweiz" that is a very concise but pretty comprehensive overview of Swiss Lugers. On page 39 there are several views of serial #01 Swiss Military (Ordonnanzpistole) that clearly shows the DWM scroll on the toggle link. The photo credit is: (Copyright H.B. Lockhoven "Waffen-Archiv"). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-25-2006, 11:09 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	The DWM name will be engraved on the right frame of Borchard pistols after 1 Jan 1897. Th __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-14-2006, 10:26 AM	#1
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	"DWM" scroll toggle marking I have wondered for some time when the first classic DWM scroll marking appeared on the luger toggle. The early prototypes, such as the Borchardt-Luger #5, which some of us had the rare good fortune to see, does not have this scroll marking on the toggle. Did later prototypes have it? Does the first scroll marking on a luger appear with Swiss model 1900 #1? Does the DWM scroll marking appear on any other DWM produced pistols or rifles?

10-14-2006, 11:11 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Doc, I'm interested in the answers to your questions as well. The only actual response I can provide is that the .32 cal. Browning-copy pocket auto DWM made for awhile has the DWM scroll on the left slide. --Dwight

10-14-2006, 12:31 PM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Dwight, the .32 Browning copy was presumable made AFTER 1900. I was wondering if the DWM scroll appeared BEFORE 1900, or was the 1900 luger the first?

10-23-2006, 11:07 AM	#4
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The DWM logo was added at about sn 60, according to records and photos I have. Mike Jones

10-23-2006, 12:19 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here is a good question for you... Was the DWM logo, as used on the Luger toggle, ever used on the early Borchardt pistols, or any other DWM manufactured equipment or tools? ...and no, I don't know the answer. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-23-2006, 12:27 PM	#6
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	John, No, it was never used on Borchardts. I have seen the logo on some tools. I have a set of calipers with their logo somewhere. Regards, Mike

10-23-2006, 01:53 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	On page 172-173 of the Horst Rutsch book, "Faustfeuerwaffen Der Edigenossen"; there is a Swiss M1900, serial number 39 with a photo of the top of the toggle which shows the "DWM" scroll.

10-23-2006, 07:04 PM	#8
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Pete, I have records of guns after #39 that have a blank toggle. So who knows, maybe 39 was changed at some point in CH. Regards, Mike Jones

10-23-2006, 07:11 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Pete, Is that a Swiss Commercial or military? --Dwight

10-23-2006, 10:10 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Dwight, Photo shows a Swiss ordnance pistol. Mike, You could very well be correct as well.

10-23-2006, 11:45 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Mike, Thanks your invaluable information. This all gives credence to the Swiss luger "pre-production" piece pictured on page 51 of Lugers at Random IMHO.

10-25-2006, 04:00 PM	#14
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Tom, My understanding is that the "DWM" engraved on the Borchardt is the name and not the scroll...am I correct?

01-01-2007, 03:17 PM	#15
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Booklet Ron Wood mentioned :

01-01-2007, 03:55 PM	#16
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks, Pete. This the book I almost won on e-bay, written by Reinhard Kornmeyer. Would like to read a translated version, if it exists. It's apparently out of print.