"Afrika Korps" luger?

stressed · 02-14-2014, 05:29 PM

Buddy of mine who is looking for a luger has a lead on one. Had palm tree w/ swastika stamped on it? I'm guessing was done after the war by somebody but I have no idea. I'll try to have him get pictures next time he sees it.

danielsand · 02-14-2014, 06:54 PM

Can't wait to see it! My GSD was not named Rommel for nothing!

Edward Tinker · 02-14-2014, 06:57 PM

I do not believe any, any Africa corp insignia was stamped. Never seen it

guns3545 · 02-14-2014, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Buddy of mine who is looking for a luger has a lead on one. Had palm tree w/ swastika stamped on it? I'm guessing was done after the war by somebody but I have no idea. I'll try to have him get pictures next time he sees it.

The Palm Tree and the Swastika was certainly the unit emblem for the Africa Corps. But... while I have seen it embossed or stamped/painted on plenty of web gear, tanks, trucks, etc, I have never seen it roll-marked, stamped or engraved/pantographed on a Luger.

FWIW.

John

Sergio Natali · 02-15-2014, 03:20 PM

With all the respect, it would be the first time that I see a Luger with A.K. insignia (stylized palm tree and the swastika?) on it.

Can't wait to see the photographs.

MikeP · 02-15-2014, 07:00 PM

Fooling with Lugers since about 1962.
This is a new one.

alanint · 02-16-2014, 06:30 AM

The only way to tell if a Luger served in the Afrika Corps would be through authenticated capture papers or a reliable veteran's story. No Luger was ever so stamped.

sheepherder · 02-16-2014, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Had palm tree w/ swastika stamped on it? I'm guessing was done after the war by somebody but I have no idea. I'll try to have him get pictures next time he sees it.

Is it a chamber stamp??? That would be interesting...

Dwight Gruber · 02-16-2014, 11:39 AM

Such a mark is documented by Costazo.

--Dwight

Pistole+Parabellum · 02-16-2014, 04:02 PM

Pictures!!??!!😃

stressed · 02-16-2014, 04:34 PM

Wont be able to get out there for the next week or two. Would the capture papers indicate North African theatre instead of European theatre? I know it wouldn't be the Pacific theatre but it's not Europe either.

MFC · 02-17-2014, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

is it a chamber stamp??? That would be interesting...

+1

Ben M. · 02-20-2014, 11:30 AM

maybe looks like this
https://www.ww2incolor.com/d/90333-4...tional_Madness

Arizona Slim · 02-20-2014, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Such a mark is documented by Costazo.

--Dwight

Explanation for this mark is found in Costanzo, page 176: He says it is an "Africa corps symbol noted on 1940/42 Mauser Military 9mm 4" models. This symbol is also found on some 9mm 8" artillery models. Watch for fakes. Locations noted: Left side frame panel." I wonder if the ones he has seen or heard of could also be "fakes"?

Lon

alanint · 02-20-2014, 01:40 PM

If I remember comments here on the board correctly, Costanzo is full of errors and outdated information. Can anybody scan a photo from the book and post it here?

George Anderson · 02-20-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Slim

Explanation for this mark is found in Costanzo, page 176: He says it is an "Africa corps symbol noted on 1940/42 Mauser Military 9mm 4" models. This symbol is also found on some 9mm 8" artillery models. Watch for fakes. Locations noted: Left side frame panel." I wonder if the ones he has seen or heard of could also be "fakes"?

Lon

Lon, you can bet your ass they all were.

Arizona Slim · 02-20-2014, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Lon, you can bet your ass they all were.

That's pretty much my conclusion too George, it would be great to have one, but only as a shooter class pistol and not as a serious collectible, much like a Luger with the "Death's Head" symbol.

Lon

danielsand · 02-20-2014, 07:00 PM

I completely agree that there is no "real" Parabelums marked with Afrika Korps insignia. But the members of my family were involved at El Alamein, and Tobruk, and I would still LOVE to see this!

Just to see to which lenght the fakers went (the size of the die used, whether it was etched, rolled,...whatever!). I hope the OP posts the close up pic.

stressed · 02-20-2014, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Wont be able to get out there for the next week or two. Would the capture papers indicate North African theatre instead of European theatre? I know it wouldn't be the Pacific theatre but it's not Europe either.

Can anyone answer this question

318is_Parabellum · 02-20-2014, 09:05 PM

"Anything" is *possible*, I suppose. Capture papers issued to a soldier from the N. African TO seem to me to be highly unlikely, as the US was just getting into the war in Europe during the N. African campaign (perhaps most famously, "the Big Red One").

Back then, enlistees/draftees were "in for the duration", and the drawdown didn't happen until well after the war in Europe had been won, and the war in the Pacific had been decided as well. I know for a fact that many ETO veterans were to be redeployed to the PTO for the upcoming invasion of the Japanese home island of Kyushu, until the Japanese surrender in August 1945.

I would view any "capture papers" from the N. African theater of operations with deep suspicion. Such documents are altogether too easy to fake... I cannot state categorically that such papers do not exist, but in my limited experience I've never come across any.

02-14-2014, 05:29 PM	#1
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	"Afrika Korps" luger? Buddy of mine who is looking for a luger has a lead on one. Had palm tree w/ swastika stamped on it? I'm guessing was done after the war by somebody but I have no idea. I'll try to have him get pictures next time he sees it.

02-14-2014, 06:57 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I do not believe any, any Africa corp insignia was stamped. Never seen it __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-15-2014, 03:20 PM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	With all the respect, it would be the first time that I see a Luger with A.K. insignia (stylized palm tree and the swastika?) on it. Can't wait to see the photographs. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-14-2014, 06:54 PM	#2
danielsand User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: SoCal Posts: 137 Thanks: 52 Thanked 100 Times in 43 Posts	Can't wait to see it! My GSD was not named Rommel for nothing!

02-15-2014, 07:00 PM	#6
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Fooling with Lugers since about 1962. This is a new one.

02-16-2014, 06:30 AM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The only way to tell if a Luger served in the Afrika Corps would be through authenticated capture papers or a reliable veteran's story. No Luger was ever so stamped.

02-16-2014, 11:39 AM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Such a mark is documented by Costazo. --Dwight

02-16-2014, 04:02 PM	#10
Pistole+Parabellum User Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 59 Thanks: 236 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts	Pictures!!??!!😃

02-16-2014, 04:34 PM	#11
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Wont be able to get out there for the next week or two. Would the capture papers indicate North African theatre instead of European theatre? I know it wouldn't be the Pacific theatre but it's not Europe either.

02-20-2014, 11:30 AM	#13
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 474 Thanks: 82 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	maybe looks like this https://www.ww2incolor.com/d/90333-4...tional_Madness

02-20-2014, 01:40 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	If I remember comments here on the board correctly, Costanzo is full of errors and outdated information. Can anybody scan a photo from the book and post it here?

02-20-2014, 07:00 PM	#18
danielsand User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: SoCal Posts: 137 Thanks: 52 Thanked 100 Times in 43 Posts	I completely agree that there is no "real" Parabelums marked with Afrika Korps insignia. But the members of my family were involved at El Alamein, and Tobruk, and I would still LOVE to see this! Just to see to which lenght the fakers went (the size of the die used, whether it was etched, rolled,...whatever!). I hope the OP posts the close up pic.

02-20-2014, 09:05 PM	#20
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	"Anything" is possible, I suppose. Capture papers issued to a soldier from the N. African TO seem to me to be highly unlikely, as the US was just getting into the war in Europe during the N. African campaign (perhaps most famously, "the Big Red One"). Back then, enlistees/draftees were "in for the duration", and the drawdown didn't happen until well after the war in Europe had been won, and the war in the Pacific had been decided as well. I know for a fact that many ETO veterans were to be redeployed to the PTO for the upcoming invasion of the Japanese home island of Kyushu, until the Japanese surrender in August 1945. I would view any "capture papers" from the N. African theater of operations with deep suspicion. Such documents are altogether too easy to fake... I cannot state categorically that such papers do not exist, but in my limited experience I've never come across any.