#2 of 4 Lugers from Lugermom: S/42

lugermom · 04-12-2019, 09:46 PM

Hi all, here’s my second Luger. This one was a lot easier to describe than the 1914, partly because I finally figured out how to open the FAQ .pdf, partly because of your kind help, and partly because I found an ad for a near-identical pistol, and I used some of that wording… :^D

I put square brackets [] around anything that was in the ad copy that I wasn’t sure of, and regular parentheses () around my own questions.

Here goes-—take a look at the photos and tell me how I did! Also would appreciate your thoughts on value. 

This is a 1938 pre-WWII German Luger pistol manufactured by the Mauser factory. (Was the factory in Oberndorf at this time, or somewhere else?)

These were the standard service pistols used by all German troops, Wehrmacht, SS, Luftwaffe and Navy forces during WWII. (correct?)

The chamber is dated "1938", and it has the secret wartime code of "S/42" for the Mauser factory on the front toggle.

The right side of the barrel extension, barrel and [left side of the breech block ](where exactly is the breech block? I sort of get it, but didn’t see a marking here, did I miss something?) have the droop wing eagle firing proofs and the Mauser factory "Eagle/63" acceptance proof. It has the "GESICHERT" safety. (The ad I found referred to something that said “geladen” which would mean “loaded” but I didn’t see this lettering. Does mine have it?)

It has the early salt blued metal finish on all the parts, and it is fitted with checkered walnut grips. The grips are not chipped.
(Question about grips—the right side grip doesn’t seem to fit the handle exactly—it bulges out in one spot at the top. Is this an indication that it has been replaced, or would this be within tolerance? I can post a photo if you need to see what I’m talking about.)

It is complete with a matching blued, [folded sheet metal?] magazine with an aluminum base. The number on the inside of the magazine is 122 (which I think is consistent with wartime manufacturing of Haenel Schmeisser magazines. Would there be other manufacturers doing the same thing at this time?)

The gun has matching serial numbers on all the parts including the magazine. The serial number is 70. (Does this mean it was the 70th one produced in the factory in 1938? Also, it looks like there’s a letter “L” on the frame but not the barrel. Would the serial number be 70 L?

(The magazine bears the serial number, which is 70, and a letter but it doesn’t have the eagle and 63 on it. Is that unusual? I couldn’t find that exact configuration in Tharpo’s excellent photos in the FAQ.)

(unlike my 1914, the steel source and batch number of the steel are not marked on this pistol, so Sheepherder will not have to explain THAT again, which will probably come as a great relief to him. But the 8.82 which is the width of the bore, is marked. :^D)

Condition
Good (?) Excellent? Fair?, with ??? % of the original blue finish, edge and high spot wear overall, excellent blue on the front grip strap with some light thinning, and brown patina showing through on the rear grip strap. ??????

Note for those just tuning in--this gun came from Canada to me in the US after my Dad passed away--the neat little stamps in the magazine well are the marks that had to be put there in order for the gun to be imported.

Also note: the pistol looks darker grey in real life than in the photos. Being photographed on the grey background made it look a bit lighter than it actually is.

Edward Tinker · 04-12-2019, 10:14 PM

very good, although too many words for me

You are correct - Mauser with the code name of S/42 and made in 1938

Note that every 10,000 guns, a new suffix started, some years they started at no suffix, then "a" etc up to 'z' - so your " i " or ' lower case L " would be like the 70,000 or more.

BTW, the suffix is not the same on the gun and the magazine, and it looks like it was added (changed to 70) - so value is not the same for a 'force matched' than a factory matched.

NOTE 2 - that an import marked gun will turn off some folks - some saying its a shooter only

My feeling is that WW2 guns (even pre-but nazi marked) are much better sellers - so I would say that its worth around $1000 to $1300

Ed

DavidJayUden · 04-12-2019, 10:41 PM

I'm thinking that one, even with the (discrete) import marks, should bring $1200-$1300 without much grief.
One question, on top, just behind the 1938 date, there is a strip of metal (extractor) with a number. Is that also "70"?

lugermom · 04-16-2019, 12:01 AM

David, the extractor number is also 70. (And as a bonus I now know what an extractor is!)

sheepherder · 04-16-2019, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugermom

David, the extractor number is also 70. (And as a bonus I now know what an extractor is!)

That is also where the 'Geladen' is...Lugermutter...

mrerick · 04-16-2019, 10:01 AM

I'll add my thoughts interspersed with your questions:
- - - - -

This is a 1938 pre-WWII German Luger pistol manufactured by the Mauser factory. (Was the factory in Oberndorf at this time, or somewhere else?)

I think that this is discussed in the FAQ. At the time, Lugers were being made in Mauser's Oberndorf am Neckar building "D", and by Krieghoff in Suhl.

These were the standard service pistols used by all German troops, Wehrmacht, SS, Luftwaffe and Navy forces during WWII. (correct?)

Wehrmacht - yes. SS didn't issue Lugers to my knowledge, and their preferred handguns were Walther PP and PPK pistols. Luftwaffe contracts were with Krieghoff because Goering had his hand in that enterprise. Some Navy Lugers did come from Mauser.

It has the early salt blued metal finish on all the parts, and it is fitted with checkered walnut grips. The grips are not chipped.
(Question about grips—the right side grip doesn’t seem to fit the handle exactly—it bulges out in one spot at the top. Is this an indication that it has been replaced, or would this be within tolerance? I can post a photo if you need to see what I’m talking about.)

Take a look inside the grips (remove them very carefully, especially the left one). They should be acceptance marked and may be numbered or have Mauser factory inspection markings. Sometimes grips warp.

It is complete with a matching blued, [folded sheet metal?] magazine with an aluminum base. The number on the inside of the magazine is 122 (which I think is consistent with wartime manufacturing of Haenel Schmeisser magazines. Would there be other manufacturers doing the same thing at this time?)

It's got the same numeric digits but is not matching. The suffix letter is different, and Haenel magazines were not used until 1940. Unfortunately, it's not period correct

The gun has matching serial numbers on all the parts including the magazine. The serial number is 70. (Does this mean it was the 70th one produced in the factory in 1938? Also, it looks like there’s a letter “L” on the frame but not the barrel. Would the serial number be 70 L?

Mauser didn't restart their serial number series at the start of each year, they just continued from "z" to "no suffix" to "a" when they had to whenever that occurred.

(The magazine bears the serial number, which is 70, and a letter but it doesn’t have the eagle and 63 on it. Is that unusual? I couldn’t find that exact configuration in Tharpo’s excellent photos in the FAQ.)

Different year of production, different factory, different Wehrmacht acceptance inspector, different inspector code.

Condition
Good (?) Excellent? Fair?, with ??? % of the original blue finish, edge and high spot wear overall, excellent blue on the front grip strap with some light thinning, and brown patina showing through on the rear grip strap. ??????

I have a 1939 Mauser made Luger with salt bluing that is extremely thin. They were still experimenting with the bluing process and trying to increase output under time pressure. That resulted in some variability of finish depth. It may have left the factory with a thin appearing blued finish.

lugermom · 04-16-2019, 12:14 PM

"lugermutter"...I should have thought of that!

lugermom · 04-16-2019, 01:23 PM

Thanks everyone—based on your notes, I changed my description. Would the wordsmiths say it’s correct? Anything to add about this pistol?

This is a 1938 pre-WWII German Luger pistol manufactured by the Mauser factory, in Oberndorf am Neckar, building D. These were the standard service pistols used by the Wehrmacht, during WWII. (correct?)

It has the early salt blued metal finish on all the parts, and it is fitted with checkered walnut grips. The grips are not chipped.

The right side grip doesn’t seem to fit the handle exactly—it bulges out in one spot at the top. This could be because the grip is warped, but I need to take a look inside the grips. (Being very careful especially with the left one.) They should be acceptance marked and may be numbered or have Mauser factory inspection markings.

It has a (close but no cookie) non-matching blued, folded sheet metal magazine with an aluminum base. The number on the inside of the magazine is 122 which is consistent with wartime manufacturing of Haenel Schmeisser magazines. The magazine has the same numeric digits as the gun, but is not matching. The suffix letter is different, and Haenel magazines were not used until 1940. So the magazine, while carefully chosen, is not period correct. It’s a different year of production, different factory, different Wehrmacht acceptance inspector, different inspector code.

The serial number is 70L, based on the number on the frame. (Question—does the 70 with no L on the barrel mean it’s not a match?)

Condition—would you guys call this one good, excellent or fair, and why?

Mr. Erick says: I have a 1939 Mauser made Luger with salt bluing that is extremely thin. They were still experimenting with the bluing process and trying to increase output under time pressure. That resulted in some variability of finish depth. It may have left the factory with a thin appearing blued finish.

04-12-2019, 09:46 PM	#1
lugermom User Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 28 Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts	#2 of 4 Lugers from Lugermom: S/42 Hi all, here’s my second Luger. This one was a lot easier to describe than the 1914, partly because I finally figured out how to open the FAQ .pdf, partly because of your kind help, and partly because I found an ad for a near-identical pistol, and I used some of that wording… :^D I put square brackets [] around anything that was in the ad copy that I wasn’t sure of, and regular parentheses () around my own questions. Here goes-—take a look at the photos and tell me how I did! Also would appreciate your thoughts on value.  This is a 1938 pre-WWII German Luger pistol manufactured by the Mauser factory. (Was the factory in Oberndorf at this time, or somewhere else?) These were the standard service pistols used by all German troops, Wehrmacht, SS, Luftwaffe and Navy forces during WWII. (correct?) The chamber is dated "1938", and it has the secret wartime code of "S/42" for the Mauser factory on the front toggle. The right side of the barrel extension, barrel and [left side of the breech block ](where exactly is the breech block? I sort of get it, but didn’t see a marking here, did I miss something?) have the droop wing eagle firing proofs and the Mauser factory "Eagle/63" acceptance proof. It has the "GESICHERT" safety. (The ad I found referred to something that said “geladen” which would mean “loaded” but I didn’t see this lettering. Does mine have it?) It has the early salt blued metal finish on all the parts, and it is fitted with checkered walnut grips. The grips are not chipped. (Question about grips—the right side grip doesn’t seem to fit the handle exactly—it bulges out in one spot at the top. Is this an indication that it has been replaced, or would this be within tolerance? I can post a photo if you need to see what I’m talking about.) It is complete with a matching blued, [folded sheet metal?] magazine with an aluminum base. The number on the inside of the magazine is 122 (which I think is consistent with wartime manufacturing of Haenel Schmeisser magazines. Would there be other manufacturers doing the same thing at this time?) The gun has matching serial numbers on all the parts including the magazine. The serial number is 70. (Does this mean it was the 70th one produced in the factory in 1938? Also, it looks like there’s a letter “L” on the frame but not the barrel. Would the serial number be 70 L? (The magazine bears the serial number, which is 70, and a letter but it doesn’t have the eagle and 63 on it. Is that unusual? I couldn’t find that exact configuration in Tharpo’s excellent photos in the FAQ.) (unlike my 1914, the steel source and batch number of the steel are not marked on this pistol, so Sheepherder will not have to explain THAT again, which will probably come as a great relief to him. But the 8.82 which is the width of the bore, is marked. :^D) Condition Good (?) Excellent? Fair?, with ??? % of the original blue finish, edge and high spot wear overall, excellent blue on the front grip strap with some light thinning, and brown patina showing through on the rear grip strap. ?????? Note for those just tuning in--this gun came from Canada to me in the US after my Dad passed away--the neat little stamps in the magazine well are the marks that had to be put there in order for the gun to be imported. Also note: the pistol looks darker grey in real life than in the photos. Being photographed on the grey background made it look a bit lighter than it actually is. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by lugermom; 04-12-2019 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Add photos, text

04-16-2019, 12:01 AM	#4
lugermom User Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 28 Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts	Extractor number David, the extractor number is also 70. (And as a bonus I now know what an extractor is!)

04-16-2019, 10:01 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I'll add my thoughts interspersed with your questions: - - - - - This is a 1938 pre-WWII German Luger pistol manufactured by the Mauser factory. (Was the factory in Oberndorf at this time, or somewhere else?) I think that this is discussed in the FAQ. At the time, Lugers were being made in Mauser's Oberndorf am Neckar building "D", and by Krieghoff in Suhl. These were the standard service pistols used by all German troops, Wehrmacht, SS, Luftwaffe and Navy forces during WWII. (correct?) Wehrmacht - yes. SS didn't issue Lugers to my knowledge, and their preferred handguns were Walther PP and PPK pistols. Luftwaffe contracts were with Krieghoff because Goering had his hand in that enterprise. Some Navy Lugers did come from Mauser. It has the early salt blued metal finish on all the parts, and it is fitted with checkered walnut grips. The grips are not chipped. (Question about grips—the right side grip doesn’t seem to fit the handle exactly—it bulges out in one spot at the top. Is this an indication that it has been replaced, or would this be within tolerance? I can post a photo if you need to see what I’m talking about.) Take a look inside the grips (remove them very carefully, especially the left one). They should be acceptance marked and may be numbered or have Mauser factory inspection markings. Sometimes grips warp. It is complete with a matching blued, [folded sheet metal?] magazine with an aluminum base. The number on the inside of the magazine is 122 (which I think is consistent with wartime manufacturing of Haenel Schmeisser magazines. Would there be other manufacturers doing the same thing at this time?) It's got the same numeric digits but is not matching. The suffix letter is different, and Haenel magazines were not used until 1940. Unfortunately, it's not period correct The gun has matching serial numbers on all the parts including the magazine. The serial number is 70. (Does this mean it was the 70th one produced in the factory in 1938? Also, it looks like there’s a letter “L” on the frame but not the barrel. Would the serial number be 70 L? Mauser didn't restart their serial number series at the start of each year, they just continued from "z" to "no suffix" to "a" when they had to whenever that occurred. (The magazine bears the serial number, which is 70, and a letter but it doesn’t have the eagle and 63 on it. Is that unusual? I couldn’t find that exact configuration in Tharpo’s excellent photos in the FAQ.) Different year of production, different factory, different Wehrmacht acceptance inspector, different inspector code. Condition Good (?) Excellent? Fair?, with ??? % of the original blue finish, edge and high spot wear overall, excellent blue on the front grip strap with some light thinning, and brown patina showing through on the rear grip strap. ?????? I have a 1939 Mauser made Luger with salt bluing that is extremely thin. They were still experimenting with the bluing process and trying to increase output under time pressure. That resulted in some variability of finish depth. It may have left the factory with a thin appearing blued finish. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-12-2019, 10:14 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	very good, although too many words for me You are correct - Mauser with the code name of S/42 and made in 1938 Note that every 10,000 guns, a new suffix started, some years they started at no suffix, then "a" etc up to 'z' - so your " i " or ' lower case L " would be like the 70,000 or more. BTW, the suffix is not the same on the gun and the magazine, and it looks like it was added (changed to 70) - so value is not the same for a 'force matched' than a factory matched. NOTE 2 - that an import marked gun will turn off some folks - some saying its a shooter only My feeling is that WW2 guns (even pre-but nazi marked) are much better sellers - so I would say that its worth around $1000 to $1300 Ed

04-12-2019, 10:41 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm thinking that one, even with the (discrete) import marks, should bring $1200-$1300 without much grief. One question, on top, just behind the 1938 date, there is a strip of metal (extractor) with a number. Is that also "70"?

04-16-2019, 12:14 PM	#7
lugermom User Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 28 Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts	"lugermutter"...I should have thought of that!

04-16-2019, 01:23 PM	#8
lugermom User Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 28 Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts	Thanks everyone—based on your notes, I changed my description. Would the wordsmiths say it’s correct? Anything to add about this pistol? This is a 1938 pre-WWII German Luger pistol manufactured by the Mauser factory, in Oberndorf am Neckar, building D. These were the standard service pistols used by the Wehrmacht, during WWII. (correct?) It has the early salt blued metal finish on all the parts, and it is fitted with checkered walnut grips. The grips are not chipped. The right side grip doesn’t seem to fit the handle exactly—it bulges out in one spot at the top. This could be because the grip is warped, but I need to take a look inside the grips. (Being very careful especially with the left one.) They should be acceptance marked and may be numbered or have Mauser factory inspection markings. It has a (close but no cookie) non-matching blued, folded sheet metal magazine with an aluminum base. The number on the inside of the magazine is 122 which is consistent with wartime manufacturing of Haenel Schmeisser magazines. The magazine has the same numeric digits as the gun, but is not matching. The suffix letter is different, and Haenel magazines were not used until 1940. So the magazine, while carefully chosen, is not period correct. It’s a different year of production, different factory, different Wehrmacht acceptance inspector, different inspector code. The serial number is 70L, based on the number on the frame. (Question—does the 70 with no L on the barrel mean it’s not a match?) Condition—would you guys call this one good, excellent or fair, and why? Mr. Erick says: I have a 1939 Mauser made Luger with salt bluing that is extremely thin. They were still experimenting with the bluing process and trying to increase output under time pressure. That resulted in some variability of finish depth. It may have left the factory with a thin appearing blued finish.