Need help with Luger markings

mesalyers · 10-15-2010, 04:13 PM

My dad was given a Luger by a friend of his and there are some markings I can't find a reference to. I'd really like to know the history of the gun. The S/42 and Crown N tell me it's a commercial model made by Mauser (right?) but the serial number has been x'd out and restamped. The last two digits on the old AND new serial number match the numbers on the rest of the gun. What does the restamping mean (who did it and why?) Also, what does the scripted letter "u" refer to in the front? Finally, it's not for sale but does anybody have an idea of it's worth? Thanks in advance.

mrerick · 10-15-2010, 05:29 PM

Hi, This is most likely a Russian Capture / East German rework.

It is a mix of parts with different origins. The presence of the over stampings indicate that this was matched by the East German arsenal during the rework process. As such, it's likely a complete gun as reworked, with matching magazine.

There are a subset of Luger collectors that focus on these reworked guns.

- The S/42 and Crown N tell me it's a commercial model made by Mauser (right?) but the serial number has been x'd out and restamped.

- The Crown over N barrel is a commercial barrel. It was not original to the gun.

- Need to see the proof marks on the front right of the receiver.

- The S/42 toggle is a Mauser toggle. It's contemporary with the 1938 receiver. These should have military proof marks on them.

The last two digits on the old AND new serial number match the numbers on the rest of the gun.

- Except for the barrel, this is probably mostly a 1938 Mauser. The takedown lever is an East German replacement.

What does the restamping mean (who did it and why?)

- They were added during the rework process as the parts were matched.

Also, what does the scripted letter "u" refer to in the front?

- It's part of the original serial number.

Finally, it's not for sale but does anybody have an idea of it's worth? Thanks in advance.

- These were imported in fair numbers about a decade ago. At that time they sold for $375-$450. Today, probably $500-600 for an average one. Your's is particularly nice, and would probably bring more from a collector focused on these Lugers.

Marc

sheepherder · 10-15-2010, 05:57 PM

1st pic clearly shows a Mauser "hump"...

The bulge on the sideplate has nice square unworn edges...somewhat unusual...

My guesstimate on value is $750 - $800...Based on recent prices of sold Lugers on GB and the evidence of little or no use since refurbed...

Ron Smith · 10-15-2010, 06:26 PM

You have an East German "VoPo" police Luger. Captured by the Russians and issued post WWII to the EG Police. Note the "Sun Burst" police property mark stamp, forward of the serial number.

The 1 on the magazine indicates a police magazine, and the primary magazine. The spare would be stamped 2. The Crown N marked barrel is a new manufactured East German replacement.

Depending on markings, these will range from $700-$1000 in value, in a strong market. At present, it would probably sell for $700 - $800. They are getting harder to find, and becoming collectible in their own category.

Ron

sheepherder · 10-15-2010, 06:48 PM

Mark Castel has some illuminating evidence of VOPO refurbs on his P38 site...Here's a link to an East German Police P38 showing the VOPO sunburst and the Crown/N barrel proof...

http://www.p38guns.com/6912VOPO.htm

Mark has some VOPO Lugers there, too...I just happened to be on the P38 pages looking at my P38 markings...

http://www.p38guns.com/East German Guns.htm

mesalyers · 10-15-2010, 09:01 PM

For the life of me I can't see the "sunburst" in front of the serial number. Is it fairly worn? Also, here is the right side with more markings.

Ron Smith · 10-15-2010, 09:21 PM

Here's the Sun Burst..

mrerick · 10-19-2010, 06:27 PM

It's difficult to make out any detail in your photo of the right side of the receiver.

The three markings toward the front of the Luger are the inspection marks and proof. E/63 was one of the inspectors that was active in 1938.

The other letters are an import mark applied when the gun was brought into the USA.

Marc

10-22-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

The bulge on the sideplate has nice square unworn edges...somewhat unusual...

The side plate is most likely a newly made VOPO replacement part and stamped to match. It has similar characteristics of the one shown in this pic...

10-15-2010, 04:13 PM	#1
mesalyers New User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need help with Luger markings My dad was given a Luger by a friend of his and there are some markings I can't find a reference to. I'd really like to know the history of the gun. The S/42 and Crown N tell me it's a commercial model made by Mauser (right?) but the serial number has been x'd out and restamped. The last two digits on the old AND new serial number match the numbers on the rest of the gun. What does the restamping mean (who did it and why?) Also, what does the scripted letter "u" refer to in the front? Finally, it's not for sale but does anybody have an idea of it's worth? Thanks in advance. Attached Images

10-15-2010, 05:29 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi, This is most likely a Russian Capture / East German rework. It is a mix of parts with different origins. The presence of the over stampings indicate that this was matched by the East German arsenal during the rework process. As such, it's likely a complete gun as reworked, with matching magazine. There are a subset of Luger collectors that focus on these reworked guns. - The S/42 and Crown N tell me it's a commercial model made by Mauser (right?) but the serial number has been x'd out and restamped. - The Crown over N barrel is a commercial barrel. It was not original to the gun. - Need to see the proof marks on the front right of the receiver. - The S/42 toggle is a Mauser toggle. It's contemporary with the 1938 receiver. These should have military proof marks on them. The last two digits on the old AND new serial number match the numbers on the rest of the gun. - Except for the barrel, this is probably mostly a 1938 Mauser. The takedown lever is an East German replacement. What does the restamping mean (who did it and why?) - They were added during the rework process as the parts were matched. Also, what does the scripted letter "u" refer to in the front? - It's part of the original serial number. Finally, it's not for sale but does anybody have an idea of it's worth? Thanks in advance. - These were imported in fair numbers about a decade ago. At that time they sold for $375-$450. Today, probably $500-600 for an average one. Your's is particularly nice, and would probably bring more from a collector focused on these Lugers. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-15-2010, 05:57 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	1st pic clearly shows a Mauser "hump"... The bulge on the sideplate has nice square unworn edges...somewhat unusual... My guesstimate on value is $750 - $800...Based on recent prices of sold Lugers on GB and the evidence of little or no use since refurbed... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-15-2010, 06:26 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	You have an East German "VoPo" police Luger. Captured by the Russians and issued post WWII to the EG Police. Note the "Sun Burst" police property mark stamp, forward of the serial number. The 1 on the magazine indicates a police magazine, and the primary magazine. The spare would be stamped 2. The Crown N marked barrel is a new manufactured East German replacement. Depending on markings, these will range from $700-$1000 in value, in a strong market. At present, it would probably sell for $700 - $800. They are getting harder to find, and becoming collectible in their own category. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-15-2010, 06:48 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Mark Castel has some illuminating evidence of VOPO refurbs on his P38 site...Here's a link to an East German Police P38 showing the VOPO sunburst and the Crown/N barrel proof... http://www.p38guns.com/6912VOPO.htm Mark has some VOPO Lugers there, too...I just happened to be on the P38 pages looking at my P38 markings... http://www.p38guns.com/East German Guns.htm __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-15-2010, 09:01 PM	#6
mesalyers New User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For the life of me I can't see the "sunburst" in front of the serial number. Is it fairly worn? Also, here is the right side with more markings. Attached Thumbnails

10-15-2010, 09:21 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Here's the Sun Burst.. Attached Images __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-19-2010, 06:27 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	It's difficult to make out any detail in your photo of the right side of the receiver. The three markings toward the front of the Luger are the inspection marks and proof. E/63 was one of the inspectors that was active in 1938. The other letters are an import mark applied when the gun was brought into the USA. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.