Pistol barrel rifling

06-27-2011, 11:47 AM

I have a DWM commercial #6714 with the original numbered barrel which has no rifling, at least none visible to the eye. Is this normal for Lugers?

alanint · 06-27-2011, 12:05 PM

It may be worn but if the balance of the pistol is in decent shape, then more likely the gun has been fired extensively with lead bullets, which have gummed up the barrel. A good lead removal product might fix this up.

rhuff · 06-27-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

It may be worn but if the balance of the pistol is in decent shape, then more likely the gun has been fired extensively with lead bullets, which have gummed up the barrel. A good lead removal product might fix this up.

What he said. I have seen this occur many time, when shooting the incorrect lead bullet, or too much velocity for the hardness of the lead.

regul · 06-27-2011, 08:50 PM

I have been using the Outers Foul Out Electronic System for years with excellent results for both copper and lead, if you follow the directions.

Ice · 06-28-2011, 03:54 AM

All copper Chore Boy pads - not copper plated - work great for removing leading from barrels. Just wrap some copper strands around a worn out bore brush and start cleaning. This method is best used dry and won't hurt the bore because copper is much softer than steel.

Charlie

sheepherder · 06-28-2011, 07:27 AM

I will throw this out here for S&G...and flame if you like...

One of my Colt Gold Cup 45's had lead fouling when I bought it [used]...Not a lot; just a little...I asked an old shooter how to get it out...he said to just shoot a FMJ slug through it...It sounded like a fairly drastic remedy, but since I shoot FMJ's anyway, I tried it...he was right...It cleaned the lead residue out...

Now, I'm not recommending it for this particular case...or for any case, for that matter...Just passing along an old pistol shooters ramblings...YMMV...

alanint · 06-28-2011, 08:04 AM

I've done this and it works as long as there is not too much lead fouling in the barrel, in which case, you will have an overpressured round. Not ideal in a Luger.

A friend of mine blew up an M16 by extensively firing lead .22 rimfire through it full auto with a conversion unit then swapping back to .223 without scrubbing out the barrel. After I saw that, I built a dedicated .22 rimfire upper for my M16 and use that, and only that, with .22 rimfire.

DavidJayUden · 06-28-2011, 09:41 AM

HAs it yet been determined if the bore is either A. smooth and oversized or B. Full of lead and undersized?
dju

Olle · 06-28-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

A friend of mine blew up an M16 by extensively firing lead .22 rimfire through it full auto with a conversion unit then swapping back to .223 without scrubbing out the barrel. After I saw that, I built a dedicated .22 rimfire upper for my M16 and use that, and only that, with .22 rimfire.

Word on the street is that you just have to shoot some .223 to get the fouling out, so thats good info. I shoot quite a bit of .22 through my Bushmaster, so I will definitely be cleaning it after each session.

Michael Zeleny · 06-28-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

All copper Chore Boy pads - not copper plated - work great for removing leading from barrels. Just wrap some copper strands around a worn out bore brush and start cleaning. This method is best used dry and won't hurt the bore because copper is much softer than steel.

And flesh is much softer than bronze, which doesn't stop the former from wearing the latter:

ithacaartist · 06-28-2011, 04:07 PM

This pic doesn't help, Michael. the flesh /fabric wear has taken off the more powdery green sulfate patina to reveal the harder, brown patina. One is not looking at raw bronze in this photo.

I guess the point is that where there's contact, there's wear. The devil is in the proportions of wear shared by the two rubbing elements, the number of repetitions per unit time, both of which would determine how long it would take for significant wear to Proportions are based on hardness, but difficult to get a handle on in cases such as the Grand Canyon, or rubbing a penny on the carpet about half a million times to polish it. Bronze still trumps flesh, overall in the proportions, but I'll bet Victor's nub is actually worn down from its original, but we'd need a "before" shot to confirm this. But just think of how many, um, pieces of flesh have rubbed on this spot; or how much time it would have taken for one to do it!

So, as we've observed recently, please use a bore guide for any rod during scrubbing, at least!

Ben Franklin is supposed to have said that the shiniest key is the one that is used the most...

alanint · 06-28-2011, 05:03 PM

Well, remember that my friend was shooting full auto with lead bullets at about 1,200 RPM. In a 14.5" barrel this leads up very quickly. Shooting semiauto should present a much lesser risk.

In any event, I went to a 7.5" barrel "Kitty Kat" upper, removed and plugged the gas tube and polished the entire insides. I also try to shoot only CCI minimags, which are plated, in the upper. With all these tweeks the upper runs 99% with a Ciener F/A kit. A blast to shoot all day very cheaply!!

07-05-2011, 02:01 PM

Back to the original topic:
I found this on you tube:
http://youtu.be/xaY2-Gff6qY
about movie prop guns having threads added to the muzzle of the barrel in order to produce more pressure for the cycling action to work. Wouldn't you know it that this Luger precisely has this feature? I asked about it before in the new collectors forum and Vlim thought likewise about it being a movie prop. I thought that it was a silencer (or suppressor) hook up.

Maybe this is why the rifling is kaput.

06-27-2011, 11:47 AM	#1
mayagrafix Guest Posts: n/a	Pistol barrel rifling I have a DWM commercial #6714 with the original numbered barrel which has no rifling, at least none visible to the eye. Is this normal for Lugers?

06-27-2011, 12:05 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It may be worn but if the balance of the pistol is in decent shape, then more likely the gun has been fired extensively with lead bullets, which have gummed up the barrel. A good lead removal product might fix this up.

06-27-2011, 08:50 PM	#4
regul Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: VA Posts: 96 Thanks: 19 Thanked 57 Times in 20 Posts	I have been using the Outers Foul Out Electronic System for years with excellent results for both copper and lead, if you follow the directions.

06-28-2011, 03:54 AM	#5
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	All copper Chore Boy pads - not copper plated - work great for removing leading from barrels. Just wrap some copper strands around a worn out bore brush and start cleaning. This method is best used dry and won't hurt the bore because copper is much softer than steel. Charlie

06-28-2011, 07:27 AM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	I will throw this out here for S&G...and flame if you like... One of my Colt Gold Cup 45's had lead fouling when I bought it [used]...Not a lot; just a little...I asked an old shooter how to get it out...he said to just shoot a FMJ slug through it...It sounded like a fairly drastic remedy, but since I shoot FMJ's anyway, I tried it...he was right...It cleaned the lead residue out... Now, I'm not recommending it for this particular case...or for any case, for that matter...Just passing along an old pistol shooters ramblings...YMMV... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-28-2011, 08:04 AM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I've done this and it works as long as there is not too much lead fouling in the barrel, in which case, you will have an overpressured round. Not ideal in a Luger. A friend of mine blew up an M16 by extensively firing lead .22 rimfire through it full auto with a conversion unit then swapping back to .223 without scrubbing out the barrel. After I saw that, I built a dedicated .22 rimfire upper for my M16 and use that, and only that, with .22 rimfire.

06-28-2011, 09:41 AM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	HAs it yet been determined if the bore is either A. smooth and oversized or B. Full of lead and undersized? dju

06-28-2011, 04:07 PM	#11
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	This pic doesn't help, Michael. the flesh /fabric wear has taken off the more powdery green sulfate patina to reveal the harder, brown patina. One is not looking at raw bronze in this photo. I guess the point is that where there's contact, there's wear. The devil is in the proportions of wear shared by the two rubbing elements, the number of repetitions per unit time, both of which would determine how long it would take for significant wear to Proportions are based on hardness, but difficult to get a handle on in cases such as the Grand Canyon, or rubbing a penny on the carpet about half a million times to polish it. Bronze still trumps flesh, overall in the proportions, but I'll bet Victor's nub is actually worn down from its original, but we'd need a "before" shot to confirm this. But just think of how many, um, pieces of flesh have rubbed on this spot; or how much time it would have taken for one to do it! So, as we've observed recently, please use a bore guide for any rod during scrubbing, at least! Ben Franklin is supposed to have said that the shiniest key is the one that is used the most...

06-28-2011, 05:03 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Well, remember that my friend was shooting full auto with lead bullets at about 1,200 RPM. In a 14.5" barrel this leads up very quickly. Shooting semiauto should present a much lesser risk. In any event, I went to a 7.5" barrel "Kitty Kat" upper, removed and plugged the gas tube and polished the entire insides. I also try to shoot only CCI minimags, which are plated, in the upper. With all these tweeks the upper runs 99% with a Ciener F/A kit. A blast to shoot all day very cheaply!!

07-05-2011, 02:01 PM	#13
mayagrafix Guest Posts: n/a	Back to the original topic: I found this on you tube: http://youtu.be/xaY2-Gff6qY about movie prop guns having threads added to the muzzle of the barrel in order to produce more pressure for the cycling action to work. Wouldn't you know it that this Luger precisely has this feature? I asked about it before in the new collectors forum and Vlim thought likewise about it being a movie prop. I thought that it was a silencer (or suppressor) hook up. Maybe this is why the rifling is kaput.