How do you determine year? - teach a man to fish?

Texasguy · 03-11-2011, 07:04 PM

I have an interest in a luger for sale and have been researching exactly what it actually is; it's a personal friend selling , so time is not really an issue. Been doing a lot of reading but have hit a roadblock.

I have used the links and info on here to ID the Luger as an "Alphabet Commercial"- 30cal made by DWM - it has a four digit serial number with suffix and all the other markings described on this forum (and other places).

Now, on to the "I am stumped" part

- how in the world do you determine the year of manufacture? Is there a serial number reference in one of the books often described on this site? I saw the ebooks for sale - are there references tables there?

I see a lot of "post the markings and pics' responses... I would really like to know where/what the reference material is...versus being told....hence the "teach a man to fish" reference

Thanks

FNorm · 03-11-2011, 10:04 PM

Determine the year by the suffix. We can pin it down, but not down to the day, or week. Month... maybe. Buy a book. A chart is in Still's Weimar Lugers.

FN

Texasguy · 03-11-2011, 10:07 PM

Actually, just the year would be awesome. I would be interested to know the year and if you can tell me; the reference?

FNorm · 03-11-2011, 10:26 PM

Tell me the suffix, Jan Still's, Weimar and early Lugers". 1993. You'll see them for sale hee every once in a while

FN

Texasguy · 03-11-2011, 10:27 PM

Dang, the suffix is R...I put it in the subject and left it out the actual post....sigh....been a long day.

FNorm · 03-11-2011, 10:33 PM

AH! Ok, I saw it just as your answer came in....LOL Pg. 15. R series was about the last 3/4 of 1928. So, 10,000 to a block and assuming a steady, constant production rate, you can pin the month down a little closer by your serial number

FN

Texasguy · 03-11-2011, 10:41 PM

Very cool. Not sure I understand all of your reply though. If you have enough patience, I would appreciate a little education.

In reference to the statement "Pg. 15." R series was about the last 3/4 of 1928.

What does "Pg. 15." refer to? Magic Luger Book page 15?

10,000 to a block - - a block is the production run...when they hit 10000 they started over at 1 with another suffix, is that correct?

Thanks - BTW, well moderated forum you guys have here...read quite a few thread...seems like all adults

FNorm · 03-12-2011, 09:05 AM

Pg 15 is the aforementioned book, Weimar Lugers. Correct on the block. They started at #1, went to 10,000 then started again with 1A, etc. The unsuffixed block is called ns, ' no suffix '. Earlier lugers used a 5 digit number. All the military used the 4 digit plus suffix. Eventually this numbering system come the the commercial ones also. All the letters were used except J.

FN

Edward Tinker · 03-12-2011, 09:17 AM

Tex, it would be helpful and great to see pictures of this luger. Many times a person has a luger and it is mismatched, or is nickled or by gum, is SIMPLY not a luger.

So, full serial number, etc on it.

There are thousands of lugers that were cleaned up and don't have a date and then was sold on the commercial market.

So, simply us assuming that it is a commercial alphabet luger is not always true

So, in my library, here in Iraq (which weighed about 40 lbs), I have 5 luger books. The best all around are Jan Still's books, and for what yours sounds like, Weimar Lugers by Jan is the book you need. At home, I have another 10-12 luger books, 5 or 6 P38 books, etc; knowledge is everything and although many folks rely on the internet, I personally like to hold and touch and look up information.

Ed

Edward Tinker · 03-12-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texasguy

... BTW, well moderated forum you guys have here...read quite a few thread...seems like all adults

mostly, it helps that there is no alcohol here in Iraq for me to imbibe in at night

oh, ok, we self moderate and we take our collecting serious, so almost everyone here is trying to learn. I learn something new very often.

Ed

Hugo Borchardt · 03-12-2011, 09:41 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Jan Still's working title for Weimar Lugers was Magic Luger Book.

His books are that good.

Nice shootin', Tex!

mrerick · 03-12-2011, 09:48 AM

Steven,

Your initial post indicated that you want the value of your friend's Luger.

With pictures, the group here can help you with that.

There is a great variation in Luger prices depending on a large number of factors. $400 - Sky's the Limit...

If you have an all matching 1923 Alphabet DWM (Commercial) luger in 7.65 Luger, and it's in the original finish and undamaged it's value is probably in the $700 range - more or less depending on condition.

Marc

Dwight Gruber · 03-13-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

Pg 15 is the aforementioned book, Weimar Lugers. Correct on the block. They started at #1, went to 10,000 then started again with 1A, etc. The unsuffixed block is called ns, ' no suffix '. Earlier lugers used a 5 digit number. All the military used the 4 digit plus suffix. Eventually this numbering system come the the commercial ones also. All the letters were used except J.

FN

Good as far as it goes, as a description of the overall military numbering scheme. The 5-digit commercial numbering ended at approximately sn 92000, followed immediately with the four-digit/suffix scheme beginning at approximately sn 2000i.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 03-14-2011, 07:35 AM

Quote:

seems like all adults

During our history which spans more than a decade, we have had some VERY mature teenagers who have been members of this forum, and who have thrived in this helpful environment... we encourage new folks with a desire to learn. Like Ed Tinker said, hardly a day passes when we all don't learn something new here.

,... and lately...we have also some really immature 40+ year olds... who are no longer part of this forum because they have been banned, and are not welcome to come back...

Ignorance is a condition where you make mistakes because you don't know any better. This is a condition from which most intelligent people can be cured with guidance and education...

Unfortunately, there appears to be no cure for Stupid, regardless of the age.

Obviously you do not appear to fall in the last group. Welcome from a fellow 63 year old student of the Luger pistol!

03-11-2011, 10:04 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Determine the year by the suffix. We can pin it down, but not down to the day, or week. Month... maybe. Buy a book. A chart is in Still's Weimar Lugers. FN Last edited by FNorm; 03-11-2011 at 10:05 PM. Reason: add

03-11-2011, 10:07 PM	#3
Texasguy New User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Suffix 'R' Actually, just the year would be awesome. I would be interested to know the year and if you can tell me; the reference?

03-11-2011, 10:33 PM	#6
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	AH! Ok, I saw it just as your answer came in....LOL Pg. 15. R series was about the last 3/4 of 1928. So, 10,000 to a block and assuming a steady, constant production rate, you can pin the month down a little closer by your serial number FN Last edited by FNorm; 03-11-2011 at 10:33 PM. Reason: sp

03-11-2011, 10:41 PM	#7
Texasguy New User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A little clarification? Very cool. Not sure I understand all of your reply though. If you have enough patience, I would appreciate a little education. In reference to the statement "Pg. 15." R series was about the last 3/4 of 1928. What does "Pg. 15." refer to? Magic Luger Book page 15? 10,000 to a block - - a block is the production run...when they hit 10000 they started over at 1 with another suffix, is that correct? Thanks - BTW, well moderated forum you guys have here...read quite a few thread...seems like all adults

03-12-2011, 09:17 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Tex, it would be helpful and great to see pictures of this luger. Many times a person has a luger and it is mismatched, or is nickled or by gum, is SIMPLY not a luger. So, full serial number, etc on it. There are thousands of lugers that were cleaned up and don't have a date and then was sold on the commercial market. So, simply us assuming that it is a commercial alphabet luger is not always true So, in my library, here in Iraq (which weighed about 40 lbs), I have 5 luger books. The best all around are Jan Still's books, and for what yours sounds like, Weimar Lugers by Jan is the book you need. At home, I have another 10-12 luger books, 5 or 6 P38 books, etc; knowledge is everything and although many folks rely on the internet, I personally like to hold and touch and look up information. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-11-2011, 07:04 PM	#1
Texasguy New User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How do you determine year? - teach a man to fish? I have an interest in a luger for sale and have been researching exactly what it actually is; it's a personal friend selling , so time is not really an issue. Been doing a lot of reading but have hit a roadblock. I have used the links and info on here to ID the Luger as an "Alphabet Commercial"- 30cal made by DWM - it has a four digit serial number with suffix and all the other markings described on this forum (and other places). Now, on to the "I am stumped" part - how in the world do you determine the year of manufacture? Is there a serial number reference in one of the books often described on this site? I saw the ebooks for sale - are there references tables there? I see a lot of "post the markings and pics' responses... I would really like to know where/what the reference material is...versus being told....hence the "teach a man to fish" reference Thanks

03-11-2011, 10:26 PM	#4
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Tell me the suffix, Jan Still's, Weimar and early Lugers". 1993. You'll see them for sale hee every once in a while FN

03-11-2011, 10:27 PM	#5
Texasguy New User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dang, the suffix is R...I put it in the subject and left it out the actual post....sigh....been a long day.

03-12-2011, 09:05 AM	#8
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Pg 15 is the aforementioned book, Weimar Lugers. Correct on the block. They started at #1, went to 10,000 then started again with 1A, etc. The unsuffixed block is called ns, ' no suffix '. Earlier lugers used a 5 digit number. All the military used the 4 digit plus suffix. Eventually this numbering system come the the commercial ones also. All the letters were used except J. FN

03-12-2011, 09:41 AM	#11
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	I wouldn't be surprised if Jan Still's working title for Weimar Lugers was Magic Luger Book. His books are that good. Nice shootin', Tex! __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-12-2011, 09:48 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Valuation Steven, Your initial post indicated that you want the value of your friend's Luger. With pictures, the group here can help you with that. There is a great variation in Luger prices depending on a large number of factors. $400 - Sky's the Limit... If you have an all matching 1923 Alphabet DWM (Commercial) luger in 7.65 Luger, and it's in the original finish and undamaged it's value is probably in the $700 range - more or less depending on condition. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.