Unusual front sight need help I.D.ing

lex luger · 02-22-2013, 10:31 PM

A friend of mine has a 1921 DWM all matching (including barrel) P08. We're trying to figure out why it has this unusual front sight. It appears to be an "Add on" fixed site rather than a sight machined as part of the barrel. Anyone ever seen this type of site? Is it a replacement for a shortened barrel? or ?? Thanks for any help.

alanint · 02-23-2013, 07:18 AM

Welcome to the forum.

Someone either turned the original barrel down, (although it does not look like much from the photo. Perhaps not at all) and replaced the original sight tower with a turning which was either silver soldered or threaded on. This was probably done to replace a damaged front sight. This repair/alteration affects your friend's pistol's value and makes it a shooter, rather than a collector piece.

What is the barrel's overall length? I ask to determine if it was cut down in any way, as the portion of original barrel showing at the muzzle does not look much smaller than the balance of the barrel's diameter. i

lex luger · 02-23-2013, 07:56 AM

I'll have to measure it, but it appears to be about 4". Was is possible that it was cut down to meet the treaty of Versaille requirements? Thank you for your reply.

alanint · 02-23-2013, 11:28 AM

That would depend on the balance of the gun. We would have to see all the markings, featrures to determine if it was cut down.

You state that it has a 1921 Chamber date. Is there a second date there or just the 1921?

Most importantly, what caliber is it?

lex luger · 02-23-2013, 06:29 PM

It is a 9mm and the 1921 is the only date.

sheepherder · 02-23-2013, 07:15 PM

From the few and out-of-focus pictures it appears to be a home-brew, cut off another pistol or rifle. Sweated or just pressed on. Doesn't look high enough to be of any use in aiming.

Pics of the entire Luger, both sides & top, taken in natural light and in focus (no phone pics) would tell much more.

Edward Tinker · 02-24-2013, 01:23 AM

yes, a 1921 would be a dated gun and after the war, could be for the military, police or export

We would need to know much more, serial number etc. Hard to help with only limited info

alanint · 02-24-2013, 06:59 AM

In any event, this is no German Arsenal's work, so any "Treaty of Versailles" theory would be just that, a theory.

This was done by a home gunsmith to replace a broken or damaged front sight tower.

sheepherder · 02-24-2013, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

In any event, this is no German Arsenal's work, so any "Treaty of Versailles" theory would be just that, a theory.

This was done by a home gunsmith to replace a broken or damaged front sight tower.

I don't have one to compare it with, but it resembles an M1 Thompson front band + sight...(The military model)...

alanint · 02-24-2013, 09:45 AM

Rich,

WAY too small. A Thompson front sight band would dwarf the rest of this barrel. Also;

- They were never made out of brass
- They are dovetailed for sight replacement
- The front sight blade, especially on the full autos, is so tall as to have made it useless on a Luger.

sheepherder · 02-24-2013, 10:11 AM

It's brass???

alanint · 02-24-2013, 12:33 PM

Sure looks like it to me!!

Lugerdoc · 02-26-2013, 10:53 AM

I agree with most of the above, but I would want to know if this front sight assy is sodered on or threaded. If the later, it may have been done during it's active military life, for the addition of a silencer, but likely later. I think that I'd rather own a silence ready luger, than a shooter with a terrible looking front sight assy. TH PS: most machinish or gunsmith can heat and remove this sight to solve the puzzle.

lex luger · 02-26-2013, 11:40 AM

Great idea. I follow up with better pics. and results.

alanint · 02-26-2013, 12:05 PM

Another thought that occurred to me is battle damage. Anyone who has watched videos of guys digging up relics on European battlefields will see the horrendous effect of an artillery or mortar barrage on field equipment.
I have owned both an MP44 and a K98 with schrapnel damage. Not enough damage to render inoperable, but clear splinter damage none the less. I think many unexplainable repairs may be due to this.

02-22-2013, 10:31 PM	#1
lex luger New User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Unusual front sight need help I.D.ing A friend of mine has a 1921 DWM all matching (including barrel) P08. We're trying to figure out why it has this unusual front sight. It appears to be an "Add on" fixed site rather than a sight machined as part of the barrel. Anyone ever seen this type of site? Is it a replacement for a shortened barrel? or ?? Thanks for any help. Attached Thumbnails

02-23-2013, 07:15 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	From the few and out-of-focus pictures it appears to be a home-brew, cut off another pistol or rifle. Sweated or just pressed on. Doesn't look high enough to be of any use in aiming. Pics of the entire Luger, both sides & top, taken in natural light and in focus (no phone pics) would tell much more. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-24-2013, 01:23 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	yes, a 1921 would be a dated gun and after the war, could be for the military, police or export We would need to know much more, serial number etc. Hard to help with only limited info __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-24-2013, 10:11 AM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	It's brass??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-26-2013, 10:53 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I agree with most of the above, but I would want to know if this front sight assy is sodered on or threaded. If the later, it may have been done during it's active military life, for the addition of a silencer, but likely later. I think that I'd rather own a silence ready luger, than a shooter with a terrible looking front sight assy. TH PS: most machinish or gunsmith can heat and remove this sight to solve the puzzle. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-23-2013, 07:18 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Welcome to the forum. Someone either turned the original barrel down, (although it does not look like much from the photo. Perhaps not at all) and replaced the original sight tower with a turning which was either silver soldered or threaded on. This was probably done to replace a damaged front sight. This repair/alteration affects your friend's pistol's value and makes it a shooter, rather than a collector piece. What is the barrel's overall length? I ask to determine if it was cut down in any way, as the portion of original barrel showing at the muzzle does not look much smaller than the balance of the barrel's diameter. i

02-23-2013, 07:56 AM	#3
lex luger New User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll have to measure it, but it appears to be about 4". Was is possible that it was cut down to meet the treaty of Versaille requirements? Thank you for your reply.

02-23-2013, 11:28 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	That would depend on the balance of the gun. We would have to see all the markings, featrures to determine if it was cut down. You state that it has a 1921 Chamber date. Is there a second date there or just the 1921? Most importantly, what caliber is it?

02-23-2013, 06:29 PM	#5
lex luger New User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It is a 9mm and the 1921 is the only date.

02-24-2013, 06:59 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	In any event, this is no German Arsenal's work, so any "Treaty of Versailles" theory would be just that, a theory. This was done by a home gunsmith to replace a broken or damaged front sight tower.

02-24-2013, 09:45 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Rich, WAY too small. A Thompson front sight band would dwarf the rest of this barrel. Also; - They were never made out of brass - They are dovetailed for sight replacement - The front sight blade, especially on the full autos, is so tall as to have made it useless on a Luger.

02-24-2013, 12:33 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Sure looks like it to me!!

02-26-2013, 11:40 AM	#14
lex luger New User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Great idea. I follow up with better pics. and results.

02-26-2013, 12:05 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Another thought that occurred to me is battle damage. Anyone who has watched videos of guys digging up relics on European battlefields will see the horrendous effect of an artillery or mortar barrage on field equipment. I have owned both an MP44 and a K98 with schrapnel damage. Not enough damage to render inoperable, but clear splinter damage none the less. I think many unexplainable repairs may be due to this.