Swiss Luger from Turkey

evrenay · 03-18-2013, 07:06 PM

I have the book: The Luger Pistol The Swiss Variations 1897 - 1947 from Fred A. Datig. Unfortunately I never had the time to read it.

So I have no idea what for a story has this Luger to tell.

It is all original except the extractor and the firing pin, which have different numbers other than "02" on them.

May be you can help.

evrenay · 03-18-2013, 07:08 PM

Edward Tinker · 03-18-2013, 07:10 PM

Looks like a very nice Swiss Luger to me. READ your book!

heh, heh

I have books I have not read too - welcome to the forum!

evrenay · 03-18-2013, 07:22 PM

Hello Edward,

did I miss something?

Isn't it a Swiss Luger (I mean I know that it was not manufactured by Waffenfabrik Bern, but it was produced for the Swiss, so thought even though it was manufactured by DWM it might still be considered as a Swiss Luger)?

If my thread is in the wrong location, please help me to carry it to the right place.

By the way I am in this forum since 06/2011.

ithacaartist · 03-18-2013, 07:27 PM

Ed, you mean welcome back? Evrenay is the guy who was finding Lugers in Turkey, where their owners are shy to show them. Gotta remember those photo essays on the Persian and others!

D.P.

p.s. Yup, read that book!

evrenay · 03-18-2013, 07:37 PM

Hello ithacaartist,

thank you for recognizing me.

Actually I don't remember I have ever seen a Persian myself.

What is wrong with that book? Or is there something wrong with my description about hte Luger I presented.

Look it is 02:36 AM here and I have to get some sleep before I go to work, so please be so nice and tell me (or at least give me link where I can read) what is wrong with my thread or the Luger book.

ithacaartist · 03-18-2013, 08:04 PM

I haven't read that particular book yet either, Ev. I presume it would contain the info needed to help generally identify yours. We are recommending that you read your copy.

I'm not so familiar with Swiss, but yours has the Swiss/1900 style pencil-taper barrel. Switzerland provided DWM with its very first military contract, so you may have a DWM built commercial (see * below) Swiss, if such a thing exists. The earliest Swiss made Lugers were, I think, assembled in Bern using some parts made by DWM, which might explain your toggle? *The Swiss stamp their pistols with a "P" if it is non-military/public. Formerly military or police pistols are stamped this way when released for private purchase/phased out and sold. Yours is also on a '06 style frame. Now, my well is empty; perhaps I'll read the book...

Your first or second post was concerning a gun I recalled as a Persian; my impression was / is that it was something unusual--thought it was a Persian. I'll go back and look.

David

evrenay · 03-18-2013, 08:08 PM

Dear ithacaartist,

thank you very much for you patient explanatory. Now I am really confused.

1900 type barrel on a 1906 frame and a DWM toggle which doesn't match the dates and all combined on a declassified pistol.

It is way too much for my little knowledge about Lugers.

Rest of the photos:

ithacaartist · 03-18-2013, 08:13 PM

Nice pistol! Same configuration as my '06 American Eagle.

lugersrkewl · 03-18-2013, 09:28 PM

welcome to the forum.
Looks like a 1906 commercial dwm. Catered to the swiss with the cross in shield, all matching with original finish would be worth a pretty penny. Ron Wood a forum member is very knowledgeable on swiss he should be along eventually.

Ron Wood · 03-19-2013, 12:05 AM

Your very nice Luger is a 1906 (also called 1900/06 by the Swiss) Swiss Military 2nd Variation. The Model 1906 Swiss Military was produced by DWM in two series. The first variation had the Cross in Sunburst chamber marking like the preceding Model 1900 and was produced in the serial number range from 5001 to 9050. In 1909 the chamber marking was changed to the Cross in Shield and this 2nd variation was produced in the serial number range of 9051 to 15215. The Swiss did not start producing their own Lugers at Waffenfabrik Bern until 1918 with the serial numbers continuing in the same sequence, picking up with the next number 15216, and without a chamber insignia.

The Cross in Shield variation like yours was for years mistakenly identified as “Swiss Police” but this was in error as the pistols were actually still military issue. Your particular Luger is interesting as it is one of a few noted in the serial number range of approximately 10000 to 12000 that do not bear the inspection stamp of Major Vogelsang. The large “P” on the receiver indicates that the pistol was released from military service into private ownership, possibly upon retirement of the individual issued the piece.

Even with the mis-matched parts, you have an attractive and collectable Swiss Luger. Congratulations!

mrerick · 03-19-2013, 10:15 AM

I have it's brother Swiss Luger made 1814 pistols later in the contract.

As Ron mentions these date from 1909, and are particularly well made. They have the long frame, should you want to replace the firing pin and extractor.

The Datig monograph you have is a very good reference to Swiss Variations.

There is also a more comprehensive book by Bobba "The Swiss Parabellum" which includes many color photographs. It's text is in English and Italian.

Marc

mrerick · 03-19-2013, 10:22 AM

Should you be looking for a magazine to match it, you'll want one with the base that includes the metal insert:

Marc

Sergio Natali · 04-21-2013, 10:35 AM

It's a beautiful DWM 1900/06 "New Model - Cross in Shield" and was surely used by the Swiss Army before being released as a "private" gun; these insignia markings were applied from serial number 9051 to about 15200 As far as I know pistols only with the Bern cross without both of the control punches of the chief inspector Vogelsang and of the successor Major Muhlemann are quite rare, and I've never been so lucky to see one yet. Congratulations, and thanks 4 sharing.

03-18-2013, 07:06 PM	#1
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Swiss Luger from Turkey I have the book: The Luger Pistol The Swiss Variations 1897 - 1947 from Fred A. Datig. Unfortunately I never had the time to read it. So I have no idea what for a story has this Luger to tell. It is all original except the extractor and the firing pin, which have different numbers other than "02" on them. May be you can help.

03-18-2013, 07:10 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Looks like a very nice Swiss Luger to me. READ your book! heh, heh I have books I have not read too - welcome to the forum! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-18-2013, 07:27 PM	#5
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Ed, you mean welcome back? Evrenay is the guy who was finding Lugers in Turkey, where their owners are shy to show them. Gotta remember those photo essays on the Persian and others! D.P. p.s. Yup, read that book! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-18-2013, 08:04 PM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	I haven't read that particular book yet either, Ev. I presume it would contain the info needed to help generally identify yours. We are recommending that you read your copy. I'm not so familiar with Swiss, but yours has the Swiss/1900 style pencil-taper barrel. Switzerland provided DWM with its very first military contract, so you may have a DWM built commercial (see * below) Swiss, if such a thing exists. The earliest Swiss made Lugers were, I think, assembled in Bern using some parts made by DWM, which might explain your toggle? The Swiss stamp their pistols with a "P" if it is non-military/public. Formerly military or police pistols are stamped this way when released for private purchase/phased out and sold. Yours is also on a '06 style frame. Now, my well is empty; perhaps I'll read the book... Your first or second post was concerning a gun I recalled as a Persian; my impression was / is that it was something unusual--thought it was a Persian. I'll go back and look. David __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894*

03-18-2013, 08:13 PM	#9
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Nice pistol! Same configuration as my '06 American Eagle. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-18-2013, 07:08 PM	#2
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts

03-18-2013, 07:22 PM	#4
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Edward, did I miss something? Isn't it a Swiss Luger (I mean I know that it was not manufactured by Waffenfabrik Bern, but it was produced for the Swiss, so thought even though it was manufactured by DWM it might still be considered as a Swiss Luger)? If my thread is in the wrong location, please help me to carry it to the right place. By the way I am in this forum since 06/2011.

03-18-2013, 07:37 PM	#6
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Hello ithacaartist, thank you for recognizing me. Actually I don't remember I have ever seen a Persian myself. What is wrong with that book? Or is there something wrong with my description about hte Luger I presented. Look it is 02:36 AM here and I have to get some sleep before I go to work, so please be so nice and tell me (or at least give me link where I can read) what is wrong with my thread or the Luger book.

03-18-2013, 08:08 PM	#8
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Dear ithacaartist, thank you very much for you patient explanatory. Now I am really confused. 1900 type barrel on a 1906 frame and a DWM toggle which doesn't match the dates and all combined on a declassified pistol. It is way too much for my little knowledge about Lugers. Rest of the photos:

03-18-2013, 09:28 PM	#10
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	welcome to the forum. Looks like a 1906 commercial dwm. Catered to the swiss with the cross in shield, all matching with original finish would be worth a pretty penny. Ron Wood a forum member is very knowledgeable on swiss he should be along eventually.

03-19-2013, 12:05 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Your very nice Luger is a 1906 (also called 1900/06 by the Swiss) Swiss Military 2nd Variation. The Model 1906 Swiss Military was produced by DWM in two series. The first variation had the Cross in Sunburst chamber marking like the preceding Model 1900 and was produced in the serial number range from 5001 to 9050. In 1909 the chamber marking was changed to the Cross in Shield and this 2nd variation was produced in the serial number range of 9051 to 15215. The Swiss did not start producing their own Lugers at Waffenfabrik Bern until 1918 with the serial numbers continuing in the same sequence, picking up with the next number 15216, and without a chamber insignia. The Cross in Shield variation like yours was for years mistakenly identified as “Swiss Police” but this was in error as the pistols were actually still military issue. Your particular Luger is interesting as it is one of a few noted in the serial number range of approximately 10000 to 12000 that do not bear the inspection stamp of Major Vogelsang. The large “P” on the receiver indicates that the pistol was released from military service into private ownership, possibly upon retirement of the individual issued the piece. Even with the mis-matched parts, you have an attractive and collectable Swiss Luger. Congratulations! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-19-2013, 10:15 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I have it's brother Swiss Luger made 1814 pistols later in the contract. As Ron mentions these date from 1909, and are particularly well made. They have the long frame, should you want to replace the firing pin and extractor. The Datig monograph you have is a very good reference to Swiss Variations. There is also a more comprehensive book by Bobba "The Swiss Parabellum" which includes many color photographs. It's text is in English and Italian. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-19-2013, 10:22 AM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Should you be looking for a magazine to match it, you'll want one with the base that includes the metal insert: Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-21-2013, 10:35 AM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	It's a beautiful DWM 1900/06 "New Model - Cross in Shield" and was surely used by the Swiss Army before being released as a "private" gun; these insignia markings were applied from serial number 9051 to about 15200 As far as I know pistols only with the Bern cross without both of the control punches of the chief inspector Vogelsang and of the successor Major Muhlemann are quite rare, and I've never been so lucky to see one yet. Congratulations, and thanks 4 sharing.