Removal of the stock lug?

[Military Engineer]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum, so please bear with me on the location of this particular question. Please feel free to move it as necessary to the right one.

I own a 1918 Erfurht that has had the stock lug filed off. I got the pistol for very little, the numbers all match (exc the barrel, which has been replaced) and she is a great and accurate little shooter.

I thought the removal was just some hack that took a rough file to the lug, but I recently came across another one with the same thing done to it. The owner, and older gentleman, told me an interesting story about the 1918s that I'd like to ask you guys, greater experts than I.

He indicated that at the end of WW1, Germany was not permitted to own military arms and that the Luger, with the stock lug attached, qualified as a military arm because the lug allowed it to be made into a short barreled carbine, for lack of a better word.

In order for them to be "demilled" and permitted for use by the police and border patrols, the lug was required to be removed and it was done to thousands of them.

Can anyone verify the veracity of the claim? Be great if I can claim that as part of the history of the pistol.
Mark

[DonVoigt]

I'm afraid that is just an inaccurate "story".

Many if not most of the "missing" lugs were removed in the US after the NFA of 1934, when shoulder stocks for pistols were made "illegal". Today that decision has been reversed, and use of a shoulder stock with artillery(8") lugers and Navy(6") lugers is ok, as long as the correct style and type of stock is used with each. The only 4" luger that is legal with a stock is the Finnish one with its rig.

There are a very few, specific Weimar era police use lugers that had the lug removed at the insistence of the French(IIRC), these are marked to the police in the region of Hesse; there may be scores of these in the US, but not thousands.

[Military Engineer]

So there is nothing from the Versailles Treaty banning and requiring the removal? That was his claim.

He also claimed that the 1920 or 1921 double date stamp is not actually a date. Is this correct? He stated that it was actually a code indicating it's issue to locals, like police and border patrol, rather than a date of re-issuance. Another fallacy?

[DavidJayUden]

Regarding the 1920 or 1921 stamp, it is my understanding that those were like the "Property of the US Govt." marks on 1911's. But from the Weimar regime.
The Treaty of Versailles requirement of stock lugs being removed is a new one on me.
dju

[Edward Tinker]

No on the removal of the stock lug by the treaty

Only the 1920 is a property marking and sometimes a date stamp - please see the FAQ for details on this

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Military Engineer

So there is nothing from the Versailles Treaty banning and requiring the removal? That was his claim.

He also claimed that the 1920 or 1921 double date stamp is not actually a date. Is this correct? He stated that it was actually a code indicating it's issue to locals, like police and border patrol, rather than a date of re-issuance. Another fallacy?

No , the removal of the stock lug is not a requirement of the Treaty.

Yes, the 1920(and a few 1921 exist) are "Property stamps" , as Ed said; but it is a little more "complicated" than you describe. I expect the "1920 PS" is covered in the stickys.

[Don M]

Quite a few P08s with Schupo police markings from Hesse (H.P.) and the city of Weisbaden (S.W.II.) have been reported with professionally-removed stock lugs have been reported (HWIS, Chapters 8 and 16, http://www.historywritinsteel.com/New_Insights.html, Item 11). Both of these areas were occupied by French forces following WWI. While I know of no documentary evidence of the reason for this, it is likely that the French required this removal to prevent the pistols being used as carbines.

If your pistol has either of these police markings and/or has the lug professionally removed, it is likely this is the explanation. A photo of the removal would be helpful.

[bdome]

Don't mean to hijack this thread but I was intrigued by the post and thought I'd post a picture of mine. I have a double stamped DWM that I posted about some years ago that had police modifications done and then removed. I'm afraid I don't know how to post a direct link to my original post but it was titled "Please Help Identify Unit Marking on 1916 DWM" and was posted on 4/19/2011.

Here is a pic of the back strap on that pistol.



Here is a pic of the front stamp marking

[DonVoigt]

Bdome,
Highlight the link in the window that starts with "forum.lugerforum.com..."
then copy and paste into your post.

like this:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...745#post323745

I'm going to guess "Kriminal Polizei Lignitz, weapon # 13.
I don't believe the lug removal dates to the period of use; the originally "removed" lugs, still show some residual outlines, like the picture posted.
Post war or US removal often leaves a small hole- believe one can see the incipient hole in your rear strap picture.

[bdome]

Thank you Don!

[mrerick]

Here's a discussion of another "K.L.j" somewhere farther down in the rack...

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...te-(K-L-j-66-)

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Here's a discussion of another "K.L.j" somewhere farther down in the rack...

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...te-(K-L-j-66-)

That is an interesting thread,
but the "j" in this thread is not "backwards".

When I looked at this one, I thought the "i" was stamped over a "g", perhaps an error corrected when stamping the correct "Li" for Lignitz and not
an "Lg". ???