My "new" shooter luger : 1918 Spandau fantasy creation

DonVoigt · 05-23-2018, 10:54 PM

I bought this one for S & G; it is a well known fake or fantasy luger.

First described in 1965 (thanks Marc for the work on this pdf):
http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1347113697

What is it? As best I can tell it "was" a very nice all matching 1918 DWM luger before the spurious crown and Spandau were added to the middle link.

The frame and receiver all bear the "N" or "circle N" of DWM and the small parts are matching and original to the DWM serial number of 785d.

Who ever "boosted" this luger added Erfurt inspected grips(crown/letter inside marked) and overstamped the original numbers with "85", they even added Erfurt grip screws.(which immediately went into my parts box).

Lest anyone fear for my sanity, I only paid a shooter price for this piece.

I can't help but wonder where it has been for the last 53 years, since first reported in Guns and Hunting magazine in March, 1965.

If anyone has any idea where, when, or from whom it first surfaced, or any of the interim owners- I'd like to document the checkered "provenance" of this luger.

There have been many threads on Spandau lugers and whether or not they actually existed or are all fakes; use the search feature and an hour or so and read all the threads!

Pictures from "today".

It seems I'm gathering a small collection of fake or fantasy lugers,
This "Spandau" joins the fake "1925" Simson I bought last year.
Now to find a nice fake Navy!

Norme · 05-23-2018, 11:41 PM

Hi Don,
Congratulations on your latest acquisition! Spandau Lugers mark the absolute high point (or low point, depending on your point of view) in the history of Luger fakery. Think of it, not just a fake gun, not just a fake variation, but a fake manufacturer as well! For years it was every Luger collectors dream to own an example from each of the eight manufacturers. God, how I miss Ralph Shattuck.
Norm

Vlim · 05-24-2018, 07:30 AM

Great! Now add a Danzig luger as well

DonVoigt · 05-24-2018, 10:00 AM

Norm,
It is amazing how long the "skull duggery" in lugers has been going on. I continue to wonder about the saga of this fantasy construct,can't be a fake can it?- as there was never a "real" one; and the money made or lost by its creator/owners along the way.

Vilm,
I'll keep my eyse open for a "Danzig", if you spot one please let me(us) know!

George Anderson · 05-24-2018, 10:07 AM

Years ago my friend Doug Smith told me about a work shop out side of Cincinnati that he was asked to visit after the death of the owner. The owner had been an amateur gun smith. Among the items Doug exami9ned were roll-dies of a Japanese "Mum" and a Danzig marking such as Don shows.

DonVoigt · 05-24-2018, 10:16 AM

Thanks George,
You have mentioned that "Spandau" die in oid posts.
It is really clear that the center link was reduced in thickness to remove the original marking and the
Spandau name and crown stamped, probably the "85" re-stamped also.

When viewed from the sid-e the center link is noticably thinner than it should be. I'll take a picture later and post.

I don't see how this pistol ever fooled anyone; but in the days before the "net" and digital pictures and with snail mail, I guess it was much easier to create "special" lugers.

George Anderson · 05-24-2018, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I don't see how this pistol ever fooled anyone; but in the days before the "net" and digital pictures and with snail mail, I guess it was much easier to create "special" lugers.

The Shattuck "Organization" was able to successfully market such items due to the marketing support provided by his publishing associate C.K.

Edward Tinker · 05-24-2018, 11:46 AM

besides the obvious help from G&A magazine publishing articles, I wonder how many people knew of the fakerys? Or were so many people amazed at the great stuff they were finding and they could buy? AND, I assume there was a well enough mark up to make it worthwhile?

There are so many real variations that it is humerous to me to see some things that came out.

Even today, the one that irritates me is how many folks will jump on a 100% "Original condition" and pay good bucks for it rather than accept an original piece that is 98% - because they have to have the prettiest example that they can find.

gill120 · 06-03-2018, 03:23 PM

It was interesting reading this most recent writing about the Spandau Luger, as at the last OGCA meeting in Wilmington Oh. there was a sighting also. A fellow was showing around to the Luger affectionodo.s a double date 1917/1920 Spandau. I had the opportunity to briefly handle it, it was serialed #75 as I recall, and had a Police Sear safety installed. Pistol was all matching and had a well used/carried look about it. Was profusely marked with crown/letter proofs, and did look believable. Was shown to several of my friends there, he seemed to be very pleased with his pistol. FYI Dave Gill

05-23-2018, 10:54 PM	#1
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	My "new" shooter luger : 1918 Spandau fantasy creation I bought this one for S & G; it is a well known fake or fantasy luger. First described in 1965 (thanks Marc for the work on this pdf): http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1347113697 What is it? As best I can tell it "was" a very nice all matching 1918 DWM luger before the spurious crown and Spandau were added to the middle link. The frame and receiver all bear the "N" or "circle N" of DWM and the small parts are matching and original to the DWM serial number of 785d. Who ever "boosted" this luger added Erfurt inspected grips(crown/letter inside marked) and overstamped the original numbers with "85", they even added Erfurt grip screws.(which immediately went into my parts box). Lest anyone fear for my sanity, I only paid a shooter price for this piece. I can't help but wonder where it has been for the last 53 years, since first reported in Guns and Hunting magazine in March, 1965. If anyone has any idea where, when, or from whom it first surfaced, or any of the interim owners- I'd like to document the checkered "provenance" of this luger. There have been many threads on Spandau lugers and whether or not they actually existed or are all fakes; use the search feature and an hour or so and read all the threads! Pictures from "today". It seems I'm gathering a small collection of fake or fantasy lugers, This "Spandau" joins the fake "1925" Simson I bought last year. Now to find a nice fake Navy! Attached Thumbnails __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-24-2018, 10:00 AM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Norm, It is amazing how long the "skull duggery" in lugers has been going on. I continue to wonder about the saga of this fantasy construct,can't be a fake can it?- as there was never a "real" one; and the money made or lost by its creator/owners along the way. Vilm, I'll keep my eyse open for a "Danzig", if you spot one please let me(us) know! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-24-2018, 10:16 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Thanks George, You have mentioned that "Spandau" die in oid posts. It is really clear that the center link was reduced in thickness to remove the original marking and the Spandau name and crown stamped, probably the "85" re-stamped also. When viewed from the sid-e the center link is noticably thinner than it should be. I'll take a picture later and post. I don't see how this pistol ever fooled anyone; but in the days before the "net" and digital pictures and with snail mail, I guess it was much easier to create "special" lugers. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-03-2018, 03:23 PM	#9
gill120 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 95 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts	Spandau Luger It was interesting reading this most recent writing about the Spandau Luger, as at the last OGCA meeting in Wilmington Oh. there was a sighting also. A fellow was showing around to the Luger affectionodo.s a double date 1917/1920 Spandau. I had the opportunity to briefly handle it, it was serialed #75 as I recall, and had a Police Sear safety installed. Pistol was all matching and had a well used/carried look about it. Was profusely marked with crown/letter proofs, and did look believable. Was shown to several of my friends there, he seemed to be very pleased with his pistol. FYI Dave Gill

05-23-2018, 11:41 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Don, Congratulations on your latest acquisition! Spandau Lugers mark the absolute high point (or low point, depending on your point of view) in the history of Luger fakery. Think of it, not just a fake gun, not just a fake variation, but a fake manufacturer as well! For years it was every Luger collectors dream to own an example from each of the eight manufacturers. God, how I miss Ralph Shattuck. Norm

05-24-2018, 07:30 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Great! Now add a Danzig luger as well

05-24-2018, 10:07 AM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Years ago my friend Doug Smith told me about a work shop out side of Cincinnati that he was asked to visit after the death of the owner. The owner had been an amateur gun smith. Among the items Doug exami9ned were roll-dies of a Japanese "Mum" and a Danzig marking such as Don shows.

05-24-2018, 11:46 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	besides the obvious help from G&A magazine publishing articles, I wonder how many people knew of the fakerys? Or were so many people amazed at the great stuff they were finding and they could buy? AND, I assume there was a well enough mark up to make it worthwhile? There are so many real variations that it is humerous to me to see some things that came out. Even today, the one that irritates me is how many folks will jump on a 100% "Original condition" and pay good bucks for it rather than accept an original piece that is 98% - because they have to have the prettiest example that they can find.