Questions, questions...

03-19-2002, 10:01 AM

I need some help with the P.08 that I was just given by my Uncle, who brought it home from the War. I also have the origional "Declariation" Form signed by his Commanding Officer, giving him permission to ship it home.

The Pistol was taken in Germany, in 1945. It was pointed at him, and fired in anger. I do not seek this information for its sale. It is not, nor will be for sale.

Description: (From reading here, I have been able to determine that it is of Mauser Manufacture, 1942, and was accepted by the Military into service.)

Stamps, top of receiver at barrel, moving rearward tward the butt: "42" on the receiver, "16" on extractor, "byf" and "16" on top and "16" again on the rear toggle link. Right side: an eagle with a circle under it on the barrel. Same stamp, only larger, and fainter on the receiver along with Two Eagle/circle stamps over the number 135. Left side: "4016" on the receiver, "16" on the locking bolt, "16" on the trigger slide plate, "16" on the safety bar, "P.08" on the frame and "GESICHERT" on the frame under the safety catch. Bottom: "4016" on barrel, "4016" on the front of the frame. Behind this number is a symbol that looks kinda like "^2". The magazine is steel, with an aluminim "butt" stamped "668" stamped over an older stamp "633" another symbol that looks like a cursive lowercase "u", a "+" and another eagle over the number "63". I have the bullets that were loaded in the magazine also ranging in manufacture from 1943, 1944 and 1945. (I have no intention of ever firing these, by the way)

Any help in identifying its service history would be appreciated. My Uncle is 76 and has had a stroke. He cannot communicate other than to say "Yes" or "No", but my Aunt tells me that he always told the story that the gun was aimed at him and the trigger pulled (Apparently a round had not been chambered) by a 12 or 13 year-old boy. My Uncle's compatriots killed the boy and gave him the pistol. He was a 19 year-old Cannoneer in Battery "A" of the Fifteenth Field Artillery Battalion. Any and all help would be appreciated!

Sincerely, bnbishop@bellsouth.net

03-19-2002, 10:29 AM

According to The Luger Handbook By Aaron Davis. You probably have a Mauser Byf 42 (Black Widow). As for value

I'll leave that to a more experienced person. Congratulations on owning a LUGER !

,Brandon

John Sabato · 03-19-2002, 10:37 AM

God bless your uncle for what he has been through in his lifetime. I will keep his medical condition in my prayers. Thanks for having the gumption to keep this historical piece as an heirloom in your family... Too many of today's young folks would rather have the money.

In order for us to give you a close assessment of the value, we will need to see good clear photographs of the condition of the Luger.

From what you have told us, it is definitely a Mauser, of 1942 production and all numbers match except for the magazine... Do you have any other accessories like holster or extra magazines or takedown tool? That would increase the value of what you have inherited. Also, do what you can to perserve the Capture papers- since they are genuine, they also raise the value to some collectors. I would recommend framing it. Others may be able to give you more information about the pistol based on the serial number information. There really is not much history to be found on any individual Luger because most records of that type were destroyed at the end of the war by the occupation forces...or the manufacturers workers.

At the very least, without looking at any photographs, your Luger is worth a minimum $500 in today's market and probably much more...as much as a thousdand dollars more if the finish is in good shape. Condition is eveyrthing when it comes to collectible value.

Welcome to the Lugerforum!

regards,

John Sabato

Dwight Gruber · 03-19-2002, 10:44 AM

You have provided a carefully observed description of this Luger, others can comment on it better than I. Thank you very much, however, for the very moving account of its history.

--Dwight

03-19-2002, 02:22 PM

I have two magazines, neither match the pistol's serial numbers, however. I have a black leather holster, but from its size and shape I think it is a P-38 holster, vs. a P.08... the spare magazine is at the front edge, the flap covers this, as well as the pistol.... and it appears that the magazine it is made for is shorter, and wider than the single stack of the .08.... I believe the P-38 is a staggered stack, high-capacity magazine, isn't it? I have photographs, but I'm still trying to get my FTP client to allow me to up-load them to my Personal Page... I will post the URL as soon as I can figure that part out.... Thank you ALL for your letters of response and encouragement! It appears that Uncle Bud stored the pistol in this holster, can anyone recommend what I need to do to preserve its condition from further detrioration?

Thanks a million!

bb

John Sabato · 03-19-2002, 02:59 PM

You will find several interesting articles including articles on both Rust Prevention and Holster preservation...

The holster does sound like a P38 holster. The p38 magazine is also a single stack configuration holding 8 rounds. Visit our sister forum at www.p38forum.com for more information on this great (but certainly not as great as a Luger )pistol...

Technical Information Link and History of the Luger Link are also excellent reading for beginners interested in Lugers

-John Sabato

03-19-2002, 06:42 PM

Photographs:

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-011f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-012f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-013f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-014f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-015f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-016f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-017f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-018f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-019f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-020f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-021f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-022f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-023f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-024f.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/at...r/Mvc-011f.jpg

John Sabato · 03-19-2002, 06:54 PM

But due to its construction similarity to the a Luger holster, I believe that it was made during the Nazi occupation of Belgium... The Browning magazine is double-stack as you previously mentioned.

Perhaps someone else can offer more speculation... or maybe even some verifiable facts

I have never seen a holster like the one you have that was associated with a Luger...

thanks for the great photographs!

regards,

John Sabato

John Sabato · 03-19-2002, 06:56 PM

Matt · 03-19-2002, 11:16 PM

I have a Nazi High Power holster and it looks similar to the later issue softshell P38 holster. I have never seen a holster like that either.

03-20-2002, 01:05 AM

Each one of these I have seen has been sold as a post-WW2 Browning HiPower police holster. I have never seen one with a WW2-era inspection stamp or markings pre-1945

03-20-2002, 09:27 AM

The holster could have been a later addition...

I was able to find a stamp "A.KIND" over "HUNSTIG" under the flap... Thanks, BB

Marvin · 03-22-2002, 01:22 PM

bb907,

The holster is definetly a post war German Police for the Browning hi-Power.

marvin

03-19-2002, 10:01 AM	#1
bb907 Guest Posts: n/a	Questions, questions... I need some help with the P.08 that I was just given by my Uncle, who brought it home from the War. I also have the origional "Declariation" Form signed by his Commanding Officer, giving him permission to ship it home. The Pistol was taken in Germany, in 1945. It was pointed at him, and fired in anger. I do not seek this information for its sale. It is not, nor will be for sale. Description: (From reading here, I have been able to determine that it is of Mauser Manufacture, 1942, and was accepted by the Military into service.) Stamps, top of receiver at barrel, moving rearward tward the butt: "42" on the receiver, "16" on extractor, "byf" and "16" on top and "16" again on the rear toggle link. Right side: an eagle with a circle under it on the barrel. Same stamp, only larger, and fainter on the receiver along with Two Eagle/circle stamps over the number 135. Left side: "4016" on the receiver, "16" on the locking bolt, "16" on the trigger slide plate, "16" on the safety bar, "P.08" on the frame and "GESICHERT" on the frame under the safety catch. Bottom: "4016" on barrel, "4016" on the front of the frame. Behind this number is a symbol that looks kinda like "^2". The magazine is steel, with an aluminim "butt" stamped "668" stamped over an older stamp "633" another symbol that looks like a cursive lowercase "u", a "+" and another eagle over the number "63". I have the bullets that were loaded in the magazine also ranging in manufacture from 1943, 1944 and 1945. (I have no intention of ever firing these, by the way) Any help in identifying its service history would be appreciated. My Uncle is 76 and has had a stroke. He cannot communicate other than to say "Yes" or "No", but my Aunt tells me that he always told the story that the gun was aimed at him and the trigger pulled (Apparently a round had not been chambered) by a 12 or 13 year-old boy. My Uncle's compatriots killed the boy and gave him the pistol. He was a 19 year-old Cannoneer in Battery "A" of the Fifteenth Field Artillery Battalion. Any and all help would be appreciated! Sincerely, bnbishop@bellsouth.net

03-19-2002, 10:29 AM	#2
Brandon Metcalf Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Questions, questions... According to The Luger Handbook By Aaron Davis. You probably have a Mauser Byf 42 (Black Widow). As for value I'll leave that to a more experienced person. Congratulations on owning a LUGER ! ,Brandon

03-19-2002, 10:37 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	What a treasure bb907 ! God bless your uncle for what he has been through in his lifetime. I will keep his medical condition in my prayers. Thanks for having the gumption to keep this historical piece as an heirloom in your family... Too many of today's young folks would rather have the money. In order for us to give you a close assessment of the value, we will need to see good clear photographs of the condition of the Luger. From what you have told us, it is definitely a Mauser, of 1942 production and all numbers match except for the magazine... Do you have any other accessories like holster or extra magazines or takedown tool? That would increase the value of what you have inherited. Also, do what you can to perserve the Capture papers- since they are genuine, they also raise the value to some collectors. I would recommend framing it. Others may be able to give you more information about the pistol based on the serial number information. There really is not much history to be found on any individual Luger because most records of that type were destroyed at the end of the war by the occupation forces...or the manufacturers workers. At the very least, without looking at any photographs, your Luger is worth a minimum $500 in today's market and probably much more...as much as a thousdand dollars more if the finish is in good shape. Condition is eveyrthing when it comes to collectible value. Welcome to the Lugerforum! regards, John Sabato

03-19-2002, 10:44 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Re: Questions, questions... You have provided a carefully observed description of this Luger, others can comment on it better than I. Thank you very much, however, for the very moving account of its history. --Dwight

03-19-2002, 02:22 PM	#5
bb907 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Questions, questions... I have two magazines, neither match the pistol's serial numbers, however. I have a black leather holster, but from its size and shape I think it is a P-38 holster, vs. a P.08... the spare magazine is at the front edge, the flap covers this, as well as the pistol.... and it appears that the magazine it is made for is shorter, and wider than the single stack of the .08.... I believe the P-38 is a staggered stack, high-capacity magazine, isn't it? I have photographs, but I'm still trying to get my FTP client to allow me to up-load them to my Personal Page... I will post the URL as soon as I can figure that part out.... Thank you ALL for your letters of response and encouragement! It appears that Uncle Bud stored the pistol in this holster, can anyone recommend what I need to do to preserve its condition from further detrioration? Thanks a million! bb

03-19-2002, 02:59 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Check the General Information Link to your left... You will find several interesting articles including articles on both Rust Prevention and Holster preservation... The holster does sound like a P38 holster. The p38 magazine is also a single stack configuration holding 8 rounds. Visit our sister forum at www.p38forum.com for more information on this great (but certainly not as great as a Luger )pistol... Technical Information Link and History of the Luger Link are also excellent reading for beginners interested in Lugers -John Sabato

03-19-2002, 06:42 PM	#7
bb907 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Questions, questions... Photographs: http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-011f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-012f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-013f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-014f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-015f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-016f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-017f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-018f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-019f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-020f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-021f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-022f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-023f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/n/bnbishop/Luger/Mvc-024f.jpg http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/at...r/Mvc-011f.jpg

03-19-2002, 06:54 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I believe that holster is from a Nazi era Browing High Power 9mm But due to its construction similarity to the a Luger holster, I believe that it was made during the Nazi occupation of Belgium... The Browning magazine is double-stack as you previously mentioned. Perhaps someone else can offer more speculation... or maybe even some verifiable facts I have never seen a holster like the one you have that was associated with a Luger... thanks for the great photographs! regards, John Sabato

03-19-2002, 06:56 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	DARN THAT SPELL CHECKER! I meant "a Nazi era BROWNING High Power 9mm" (EOM)

03-19-2002, 11:16 PM	#10
Matt User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I believe that holster is from a Nazi era Browing High Power 9mm I have a Nazi High Power holster and it looks similar to the later issue softshell P38 holster. I have never seen a holster like that either.

03-20-2002, 01:05 AM	#11
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: I believe that holster is from a Nazi era Browing High Power 9mm Each one of these I have seen has been sold as a post-WW2 Browning HiPower police holster. I have never seen one with a WW2-era inspection stamp or markings pre-1945

03-20-2002, 09:27 AM	#12
bb907 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: I believe that holster is from a Nazi era Browing High Power 9mm The holster could have been a later addition... I was able to find a stamp "A.KIND" over "HUNSTIG" under the flap... Thanks, BB

03-22-2002, 01:22 PM	#13
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I believe that holster is from a Nazi era Browing High Power 9mm bb907, The holster is definetly a post war German Police for the Browning hi-Power. marvin