Evaluating a Luger finish

Marvin's post below ("S/42 Luger") got me thinking about something that I realize is some 30 years overdue for me! I have until tonight always "eyeballed" a gun's blue percentage in order to judge the % of finish. Tonight I took the time to measure the exposed surface area of a standard military Luger, not counting the strawed parts and came to a calculation of approx 24 square inches of blued metal. I realize or at least believe that on a salt blue luger this would exceed 25 sq inches. I performed these measurements with a flexable (fabric) but accurate tape and tended to fudge a bit to the lesser size as I did not measure grip screws or the small area around them (for example). My revelation is this: a luger could have a completely "white" sideplate and still be 96% blue (97% with a salt blue, all exposed parts counting). If for example, a piece had the sideplate hump worn white and say a 1/4 inch wide strip of holster wear down the entire muzzle ring (.5 inch) and about one half inch of wear on the right frame rail and a half inch missing blue on the grip strap or butt (these are simply offered as typical holster wear examples) this example Luger would come out with a strong 97% blue remaining. I would like to hear comments if this approach seems to better quantify condition. Thanks

[Aaron]

If only 97% meant that only 3% of the total surface area had lost its finish. However, if you carefully read the first section of the Blue Book of Gun Values, you will find that a gun with only slight wear on a few sharp edges (which may comprise only 0.5% of the total surface area) rapidly drops to the 95% classification. A few more tiny freckles and you may drop to as low as 75%. I am not happy with the present system, as it leaves too much to the imagination and to the discretion of the grader. That is why it is so difficult to buy a gun sight unseen.

[miner]

I have often wondered how ANYONE can make a qualified distinction between say 96% and 97%, or even between 90% and 95% for that matter...

You and I both Miner! That is why I figured we should take the subjectivity out of it abd actually measure blue loss against total exposed surface area, other wise it merely becomes each persons opinion. Pretty scary when say a 97% Luger means only a 1/4 by 1/4 area is worn (would really be 99 + %, and one little dab of high quality cold blue would raise the price by 100 plus dollars!

[Marvin]

bcc,


This is a very interesting experiment you did. I was very surprised with your findings with the percentage. From my previous posting, maybe I am too critical as to condition and the dealers are closer. I agree that that condition is relative to the person who is doing the evaluation and you must expect at least a 1-2% diffence of opinion from any tweo experts.


The NRA grading systems was a good one, but the percent of bluing grading can get closer to the condition.


As I stated, I like to have pistols as nice as possible, but I do like the mid-90s percent range. It shows just enough wear to have been carried, but not abused.


Good Posting and good research.


Marvin

[Johnny Peppers]

I have yet to see a cold blue solution that will match either the rust blue or hot salt blue used on Lugers. The value of the pistol has certainly been hurt by the use of cold blue, and should fool no one. If you suspect that cold blue has been used on a gun, just rub the area with your finger until it gets a little warm, and the smell of the copper sulfate is very apparent. Beware of a pistol that has been drenched in oil to mask the odor of the copper sulfate. Also the Mini-Mag flashlight will really highlight any areas that have been touched up.

There is not and never will be a scientific method of determining the percentage of finish remaining on a firearm. The percentage method if used honestly is probably the best method to date. If a gripstrap has full blue coverage but the blue is starting to thin, this should be noted in the description of the pistol. The percentage method used with a full disclosure of any additional information needed to evaluate the pistol along with a no charge return policy is your best bet for buying a pistol that you have not seen. The final evaluation comes down to the buyer being satisfied.

Hello Marvin, that is what drove me to consider this. I personally started seeing the percentage criteria used about 30+ years ago by the big luger dealers on their price list. I have always wondered how to distinguish between say 97 and 98 percent or for that matter 90 and 91 percent...I think you know the problem. I never worried about it in the past because it never seem to have a big impact on value, but over the last 5 or 10 years that seems to have changed. It sort of reminds me of what is going on in the coin collecting hobby, where the grading and "value" have become so interlinked and subjective that certified graders are required and even then certified gradings can/will vary from one grader to another! The big game in that world is buying coins a one grade and then getting re-certified at a slightly higher grade for a big profit. It seems many types of collector guns are headed for the same type of profit driven debacle...I hope not.

[Uncle Mike]

Hi,How accurate do you find grading on Lugar lists?I looked at Simpson's list and he uses the percentage method.Does anyone have any experience with comparing lists with pistol?

[Marvin]

Mike,


It has been my opinion that most dealers grade their pistols a little higher than I do. maybe my standard is higher than theirs and they are the correct ones. I have bought several pistols from Simpson in the past and my evaluation is always a couple points lower than what is stated in the list. When I buy from the list, I assume that the pistol will be a couple percent lower than advertised and the price is within what I expect it to be.


This is really tough thing to do is grade a pistol. With the price of Lugers continuing to climb, the more expensive pistols will have to have a certified evaluation to preserve the value. It is shame it will come to this, and that is why I stay with the more "common" or easily documented pistols.


Marvin