Repro 1st model drum

Doug G. · 03-08-2004, 07:45 PM

Just saw this on Ebay. Was told that they did not make these? REPRO 1st MODEL DRUM

Dwight Gruber · 03-08-2004, 10:00 PM

Note, that the seller claims that this is a 8-round magazine.

There isn't a good view of the right side of the magazine, but I have seen--held--a repro trommel mag which was hollow, simply attached to a regular magazine body to emulate a real drum mag. Looks like this one is the same way.

Iirc the guy was asking about $150 for the one I saw.

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 03-09-2004, 11:15 AM

This one looks similar to the repro 2nd issue drums that I've seen offered with the Japanese non-gun LPO8s. Unfortunately, these will not fit into a standard luger, without a lot of filing and fitting. TH

Big Norm · 03-09-2004, 07:31 PM

Doug,
I was not aware that there were repros on the type 1 either. I was going back and forth between the repro and my type 1. But then I read in Walters book (page 272) that there were three manufactures of the snail drum and several patterns. The pictures in the book are not great. Jan Stills Imperial Luger book isn't that helpful. Kenyons "Luger at Random" book (page 398-9) has limited views but they are the best of these books.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 03-09-2004, 10:04 PM

Norm, there were three designated or approved manufacturers of snails but only two known to produce them. I've never seen nor heard of a repro type I.

John Sabato · 03-10-2004, 09:13 AM

George, I was thinking the same thing... This drum doesn't look like any repro that I have seen either... and he is SO CONVINCING that it only holds "8 AMMO" that I wonder if that is just rhetoric to fool the ebay hi-capacity magazine police... Hmmmmm.

George Anderson · 03-10-2004, 11:37 AM

I've compared it with my Type I AEG. It's probably a repro but may be an eviscerated snail mounted on an 08 mag. Observations: retaining tabs on forward side of the drum should be 16, only 15 on the auction piece. Where the throat of the drum captures the tube on the forward side the two folded sides should meet to form a seam...there is a space between them on the auction piece. I don't see a side locking pin on the plunger. The axis of the plunger, in an unloaded state should rest about 1/2 inch to the left of the number 12. There should be a serial number on the forward side of the drum. Four digit serial numbers would be very rare indeed.

All these comments are based on close comparison to one AEG Type I. Perhaps a Bing snail is different but I doubt it because the inconsistencies noted above, with the exception of the plunger, hold true with a Bing early type II that I have.

Big Norm · 03-11-2004, 02:07 PM

George,
I thought the same as you in the area where the mags spine meets the drum. But then I looked at pictures in my above mentioned books and I saw variations there on my type I too. I wanted to say something about the fingers that wrap around the drum too. The repro has dink marks on all fingers. Mine has only a couple of these dinks and they appear to be some sort of proof marks. The button on the arm repro is checkered while mine is not, but it is checkered in the books. Mine looks like the one in Reeses book. The screw that holds the drum together is also different than mine. Mine looks like the one in Reeses book. The drum may have a plug in it to make it legal in some states. I could go on and on about differences but that would be difficult to do in writing. I should have a digital camera to show some of the differences. I didn't post earlier the differences because I read in my books that there were three different manufactures but that these three manufactures had several patterns so I didn't go into it. I don't think that I saw any manufactures marks of this repro but I could be wrong. All in all, I can't tell if this is really a repro or not.

One thing that I would like to ask. Is there only one spring or is there two springs in the Trommel type I? I have one spring that appears to approximately fill the spine and I always assumed that there would be a second one in the drum. But then I looked at Reeses diagram and the spring looks longer. My spring is 12" long and does not look like that could go all the way down the spine and around the drum. Pulling the arm around after I removed the spring in the spine indicates that there is a second spring in there. Could it be that the seller is wrong about the drum only holding eight rounds? If he doesn't have a loading tool, he may have seen the 12" spring and made an assumption without pulling on the arm to feel the second spring. I am asking and not making a statement.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 03-11-2004, 02:47 PM

To all,
I am going to take a SWAG and say that this item is worth taking a shot at. Since the seller is from Finland, I would say to pay via Paypal using a credit card. If the item turns out to actually be a repro then you can cancel the payment on your credit card and send the drum back. Repro Type 2's go for ABOUT $400. So use that in determining if you should keep it even it is a repro. Just my two cents worth.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 03-11-2004, 06:38 PM

Norm, I think that there is too much wrong with it to risk bucks here. There were only two manufacturers of snails and my observations above hold true in comparison to all of my snails.

Big Norm · 03-12-2004, 12:42 PM

George,
you may be very well right. It sure would be nice to physically see this one and physically compare it to a known type 1. That is the problem with buying on the internet. Its frustrating to not really hold something in my hands.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 03-12-2004, 03:06 PM

Solution: Email and ask what it weighs. Also ask if it's the real thing.

George Anderson · 03-13-2004, 08:01 AM

He says that it aint genuine and it weighs "over 500 grams."

The weight doesn't help in this case as unloaded snails should weigh 680-730 grams.

Big Norm · 03-13-2004, 02:39 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Big Norm:
George

"One thing that I would like to ask. Is there only one spring or is there two springs in the Trommel type I? I have one spring that appears to approximately fill the spine and I always assumed that there would be a second one in the drum. But then I looked at Reeses diagram and the spring looks longer. My spring is 12" long and does not look like that could go all the way down the spine and around the drum. Pulling the arm on the drum around after I removed the spring from the spine indicates that there is a second spring in there."
Big Norm<hr /></blockquote>I am still curious if others also have a second spring inside the drum. Reeses diagram indicates that there is only one spring.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 03-14-2004, 08:09 AM

Norm, I'd sooner play with young timber rattlers than open up a Trommelmagazin.

Doug G. · 03-15-2004, 01:18 AM

I have emailed twice with no reply. George, it is quite safe to remove the back cover of the trommel mag. The only thing in there is the mag spring that goes up into the tube. It is not under a great deal of tension. The main spring is enclosed inside another housing that does not look accessible. I had to disassemble my 2nd model to clean 80 years of gunk out of so I could use it!

Big Norm · 03-15-2004, 10:58 PM

Thanks Doug. Contrary to what Reeses book shows, it felt like there are two springs in these things. One in the spine, or tube, and another in the drum itself. But like George, I am afraid to take it all apart. The good thing is that after reading all these posts, I feel better about mine being original. I tip my coffee mug to all of you.

George, don't be afraid to take the spring out of the tube,or spine. Its easy to put back in. But once you take it out, move the arm on the drum and you will feel the second springs tension on that arm.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 03-17-2004, 03:14 PM

Well, the drum was sold to a friend of ours. If it is an original, then Paolo got a good buy and the rest of us were wrong. If it is a repro then Paolo paid too much. I would have stopped bidding at $400. But it sure would be nice to get Paolo's opinion of his purchase just to satisfy my doubts. Ah-h-h! if I could only sit on a belcony in sunny Italy with Mauro and Paolo, over a fine glass of Italian wine and compare my type 1 Trommel mag to theirs with an occassional glance at a classically beautiful Italian lady. Maybe a couple of my artillery Lugers for me to out and out brag about. These are the things that dreams are made of. Too bad that our Big Brothers in the government business won't allow us three gentlemen to relax and enjoy. Oh well, maybe I can put something like this on my future 'to-do' list.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 03-18-2004, 10:55 AM

Norm, I had the pleasure of enjoying that fine Italian wine on balconies for almost 7 years while serving in the U.S. Army... frequently accompanied by classicly beautiful ladies...

I didn't know Mauro and Paolo then, but as I recall, ...I didn't miss them either

. As a soldier in a foreign land, I didn't have many gun privileges that didn't come directly out of the arms room while wearing a green suit of clothing...

After several minutes of glassy eyed reminiscing, let me encourage you to push that dream to the top of your future 'to-do' list, while I put Italian Wine on the shopping list...

The 'next' time I go to Italy... Hopefully in the next year or so, I plan to look up these two Luger amicos... and discuss Lugers and wine... I was single then... but I am not now...

"thanks for the memories"

Big Norm · 03-18-2004, 02:41 PM

John,
I am more than happy to have given you a few moments of happy rememberances.You made my day. But thanks to this forum and a few other instances, I have come into contact with a few other individuals from other countries whom I would love to visit and maybe establish a friendship with. Not all are in Europe. Murry of New Zealand is a fine example. I may not be able to export a fine Luger or two because of laws. But maybe, just maybe, I will be able to create a opportunity for these people to have some fun bragging about their collections and to create some nice memories of my own.

Given the current, and possible long term, unstable political climate in the world, I doubt that my dreams will be fullfilled. But I hope that a few dreams may be satisfied. I DO have some pretty strong plans for Norway.
Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

03-08-2004, 07:45 PM	#1
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Repro 1st model drum Just saw this on Ebay. Was told that they did not make these? REPRO 1st MODEL DRUM __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

03-09-2004, 11:15 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	This one looks similar to the repro 2nd issue drums that I've seen offered with the Japanese non-gun LPO8s. Unfortunately, these will not fit into a standard luger, without a lot of filing and fitting. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-10-2004, 09:13 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	George, I was thinking the same thing... This drum doesn't look like any repro that I have seen either... and he is SO CONVINCING that it only holds "8 AMMO" that I wonder if that is just rhetoric to fool the ebay hi-capacity magazine police... Hmmmmm. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-13-2004, 02:39 PM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Big Norm: <strong>George "One thing that I would like to ask. Is there only one spring or is there two springs in the Trommel type I? I have one spring that appears to approximately fill the spine and I always assumed that there would be a second one in the drum. But then I looked at Reeses diagram and the spring looks longer. My spring is 12" long and does not look like that could go all the way down the spine and around the drum. Pulling the arm on the drum around after I removed the spring from the spine indicates that there is a second spring in there." Big Norm</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I am still curious if others also have a second spring inside the drum. Reeses diagram indicates that there is only one spring. Big Norm

03-15-2004, 01:18 AM	#16
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	I have emailed twice with no reply. George, it is quite safe to remove the back cover of the trommel mag. The only thing in there is the mag spring that goes up into the tube. It is not under a great deal of tension. The main spring is enclosed inside another housing that does not look accessible. I had to disassemble my 2nd model to clean 80 years of gunk out of so I could use it! __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

03-08-2004, 10:00 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,294 Times in 427 Posts	Note, that the seller claims that this is a 8-round magazine. There isn't a good view of the right side of the magazine, but I have seen--held--a repro trommel mag which was hollow, simply attached to a regular magazine body to emulate a real drum mag. Looks like this one is the same way. Iirc the guy was asking about $150 for the one I saw. --Dwight

03-09-2004, 07:31 PM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Doug, I was not aware that there were repros on the type 1 either. I was going back and forth between the repro and my type 1. But then I read in Walters book (page 272) that there were three manufactures of the snail drum and several patterns. The pictures in the book are not great. Jan Stills Imperial Luger book isn't that helpful. Kenyons "Luger at Random" book (page 398-9) has limited views but they are the best of these books. Big Norm

03-09-2004, 10:04 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Norm, there were three designated or approved manufacturers of snails but only two known to produce them. I've never seen nor heard of a repro type I.

03-10-2004, 11:37 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	I've compared it with my Type I AEG. It's probably a repro but may be an eviscerated snail mounted on an 08 mag. Observations: retaining tabs on forward side of the drum should be 16, only 15 on the auction piece. Where the throat of the drum captures the tube on the forward side the two folded sides should meet to form a seam...there is a space between them on the auction piece. I don't see a side locking pin on the plunger. The axis of the plunger, in an unloaded state should rest about 1/2 inch to the left of the number 12. There should be a serial number on the forward side of the drum. Four digit serial numbers would be very rare indeed. All these comments are based on close comparison to one AEG Type I. Perhaps a Bing snail is different but I doubt it because the inconsistencies noted above, with the exception of the plunger, hold true with a Bing early type II that I have.

03-11-2004, 02:07 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	George, I thought the same as you in the area where the mags spine meets the drum. But then I looked at pictures in my above mentioned books and I saw variations there on my type I too. I wanted to say something about the fingers that wrap around the drum too. The repro has dink marks on all fingers. Mine has only a couple of these dinks and they appear to be some sort of proof marks. The button on the arm repro is checkered while mine is not, but it is checkered in the books. Mine looks like the one in Reeses book. The screw that holds the drum together is also different than mine. Mine looks like the one in Reeses book. The drum may have a plug in it to make it legal in some states. I could go on and on about differences but that would be difficult to do in writing. I should have a digital camera to show some of the differences. I didn't post earlier the differences because I read in my books that there were three different manufactures but that these three manufactures had several patterns so I didn't go into it. I don't think that I saw any manufactures marks of this repro but I could be wrong. All in all, I can't tell if this is really a repro or not. One thing that I would like to ask. Is there only one spring or is there two springs in the Trommel type I? I have one spring that appears to approximately fill the spine and I always assumed that there would be a second one in the drum. But then I looked at Reeses diagram and the spring looks longer. My spring is 12" long and does not look like that could go all the way down the spine and around the drum. Pulling the arm around after I removed the spring in the spine indicates that there is a second spring in there. Could it be that the seller is wrong about the drum only holding eight rounds? If he doesn't have a loading tool, he may have seen the 12" spring and made an assumption without pulling on the arm to feel the second spring. I am asking and not making a statement. Big Norm

03-11-2004, 02:47 PM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	To all, I am going to take a SWAG and say that this item is worth taking a shot at. Since the seller is from Finland, I would say to pay via Paypal using a credit card. If the item turns out to actually be a repro then you can cancel the payment on your credit card and send the drum back. Repro Type 2's go for ABOUT $400. So use that in determining if you should keep it even it is a repro. Just my two cents worth. Big Norm

03-11-2004, 06:38 PM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Norm, I think that there is too much wrong with it to risk bucks here. There were only two manufacturers of snails and my observations above hold true in comparison to all of my snails.

03-12-2004, 12:42 PM	#11
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	George, you may be very well right. It sure would be nice to physically see this one and physically compare it to a known type 1. That is the problem with buying on the internet. Its frustrating to not really hold something in my hands. Big Norm

03-12-2004, 03:06 PM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Solution: Email and ask what it weighs. Also ask if it's the real thing.

03-13-2004, 08:01 AM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	He says that it aint genuine and it weighs "over 500 grams." The weight doesn't help in this case as unloaded snails should weigh 680-730 grams.

03-14-2004, 08:09 AM	#15
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Norm, I'd sooner play with young timber rattlers than open up a Trommelmagazin.

03-15-2004, 10:58 PM	#17
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks Doug. Contrary to what Reeses book shows, it felt like there are two springs in these things. One in the spine, or tube, and another in the drum itself. But like George, I am afraid to take it all apart. The good thing is that after reading all these posts, I feel better about mine being original. I tip my coffee mug to all of you. George, don't be afraid to take the spring out of the tube,or spine. Its easy to put back in. But once you take it out, move the arm on the drum and you will feel the second springs tension on that arm. Big Norm

03-17-2004, 03:14 PM	#18
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Well, the drum was sold to a friend of ours. If it is an original, then Paolo got a good buy and the rest of us were wrong. If it is a repro then Paolo paid too much. I would have stopped bidding at $400. But it sure would be nice to get Paolo's opinion of his purchase just to satisfy my doubts. Ah-h-h! if I could only sit on a belcony in sunny Italy with Mauro and Paolo, over a fine glass of Italian wine and compare my type 1 Trommel mag to theirs with an occassional glance at a classically beautiful Italian lady. Maybe a couple of my artillery Lugers for me to out and out brag about. These are the things that dreams are made of. Too bad that our Big Brothers in the government business won't allow us three gentlemen to relax and enjoy. Oh well, maybe I can put something like this on my future 'to-do' list. Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

03-18-2004, 10:55 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Norm, I had the pleasure of enjoying that fine Italian wine on balconies for almost 7 years while serving in the U.S. Army... frequently accompanied by classicly beautiful ladies... I didn't know Mauro and Paolo then, but as I recall, ...I didn't miss them either . As a soldier in a foreign land, I didn't have many gun privileges that didn't come directly out of the arms room while wearing a green suit of clothing... After several minutes of glassy eyed reminiscing, let me encourage you to push that dream to the top of your future 'to-do' list, while I put Italian Wine on the shopping list... The 'next' time I go to Italy... Hopefully in the next year or so, I plan to look up these two Luger amicos... and discuss Lugers and wine... I was single then... but I am not now... "thanks for the memories" __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-18-2004, 02:41 PM	#20
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	John, I am more than happy to have given you a few moments of happy rememberances.You made my day. But thanks to this forum and a few other instances, I have come into contact with a few other individuals from other countries whom I would love to visit and maybe establish a friendship with. Not all are in Europe. Murry of New Zealand is a fine example. I may not be able to export a fine Luger or two because of laws. But maybe, just maybe, I will be able to create a opportunity for these people to have some fun bragging about their collections and to create some nice memories of my own. Given the current, and possible long term, unstable political climate in the world, I doubt that my dreams will be fullfilled. But I hope that a few dreams may be satisfied. I DO have some pretty strong plans for Norway. Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />