1916 Erfurt numbers

jeffs · 10-27-2008, 01:25 PM

Dear experts,

The attached photo of an Erfurt 1916 Luger clearly shows that the third digit of the serial number on the barrel extension has been altered into a 5. There is an "RC" mark of the other side of the barrel extension, indicating that the pistol had at some point been sent back to the factory. Could the serial number have been altered as part of this factory work, or is this a cause for suspicion on a pistol that is otherwise matching?

(This pistol is for sale at AuctionArms, and this is their picture)

Thanks!
Jeff

Edward Tinker · 10-27-2008, 02:47 PM

Jeff, just as a slight corrrection; the RC (Revisions-Commission) marking does not mean it went back to the factory, but that the part was out of specification and was accepted at that time by a senior inspector.

See: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=14755

John Sabato · 10-27-2008, 03:15 PM

Under high magnification, I can see that the digit under the second "5" is a "4".

The focus of your photo would need to be macro sharp to compare the two "5"'s to see if they were struck by the same die. It could be as simple as a mistake corrected at the factory, or as complex as a recent attempt at fraud. Knowing the actual owner history for this gun can speak volumes.

For example, if you know that the current owner or seller is the actual veteran who brought it home, the chances that the overstamp is an indication of attempted fraud is very low... but if this gun has passed through several owners, there is no way to know "UNLESS" the forensics of the two "5" numbers show them to have been stamped by the exact same die...

I hope this mini-lesson has been helpful.

jeffs · 10-27-2008, 03:41 PM

Thanks!

Jeff

10-27-2008, 01:25 PM	#1
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1916 Erfurt numbers Dear experts, The attached photo of an Erfurt 1916 Luger clearly shows that the third digit of the serial number on the barrel extension has been altered into a 5. There is an "RC" mark of the other side of the barrel extension, indicating that the pistol had at some point been sent back to the factory. Could the serial number have been altered as part of this factory work, or is this a cause for suspicion on a pistol that is otherwise matching? (This pistol is for sale at AuctionArms, and this is their picture) Thanks! Jeff Attached Thumbnails

10-27-2008, 02:47 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Jeff, just as a slight corrrection; the RC (Revisions-Commission) marking does not mean it went back to the factory, but that the part was out of specification and was accepted at that time by a senior inspector. See: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=14755 __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-27-2008, 03:15 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Under high magnification, I can see that the digit under the second "5" is a "4". The focus of your photo would need to be macro sharp to compare the two "5"'s to see if they were struck by the same die. It could be as simple as a mistake corrected at the factory, or as complex as a recent attempt at fraud. Knowing the actual owner history for this gun can speak volumes. For example, if you know that the current owner or seller is the actual veteran who brought it home, the chances that the overstamp is an indication of attempted fraud is very low... but if this gun has passed through several owners, there is no way to know "UNLESS" the forensics of the two "5" numbers show them to have been stamped by the exact same die... I hope this mini-lesson has been helpful. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-27-2008, 03:41 PM	#4
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks! Jeff