1914 - rework?

[Geo99]

Please help -

I am looking for a nice 1914 to purchase and I am considering this piece currently on gunbroker. At first glance it appears to be a nice 98% or so gun, but a closer look revealed many questions in my mind. I present them here now for your "expert" opinions. I want to know is this a legitimate Nazi rework, a one-of kind orphan, or a fake? And is it worth the asking price of $1850?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=350759864

My concerns :

1. Barrel has been replaced & renumbered
2. Trigger does not match
3. Are the extra stamps on rt side correct? The "cactus" stamp is set back just far enough, as if to make room for the
"WaA66" stamp.

4. There is virtually no wear on typical wear areas, such as:
- rear of frame where the toggle hits it,
- on top of the sideplate where sear safety rubs,
- front toggle hinge
- stock lug

5. Sear safety pin is blued, which is wrong?
6. Toggle axle retaining pin is sticking up and looks blued?
7. Sear spring looks rust blued (like an Erfurt), not fire blued.

Yet there are halos on toggle parts (and barrel?) - how can this be if it was reblued?

- Geo

[alvin]

Not an expert. The barrel does not have 8,8 something, it's a replaced barrel. The trigger is mismatched. The magazine bottom is not wood. The grip panels are unnumbered.

The real problem -- all these probably can be covered by "German police reworked" umbrella. If "German reworked" being a must, how to tell it's done by German or not needs an expert to tell. I don't know. Reworked pistol's price is supposed to be better than factory one. But this one's $1750.... I saw am-firearms.com is selling a 1918 (looks healthy to me) at $1895 (not related with me, just FYI).

It's actually uncommon to see gun in $1000-$2000 range very professionally redone due to professional's labor cost. But smaller touch up, regional enhancement, brute force matching, etc are possible.

[alanint]

At first glance it looks like an honest gun to me. The grips have the proper cut for the magazine safety, which is at least partially there and everything else I see says" correct Weimar Police Rework".

The sear safety pin looks like it is correctly white to me, just a little age tasrnished. The magazines look good and the only red flag is the mismatched trigger.

I would offer closer to $1,500 for this one.

[Nomadr]

Being a 1914, and went through WWI and then reworked for police use after. Then going through WWII. It's hard to believe it has not been refinished at some point. The finish just looks to good for what it's been through? MHO!

Did the Nazi's refinish reworked Lugers? Or ANY reworked WWI pistols for that matter?

Bob

[Edward Tinker]

Why does he say "revoked" to the army in the 1930's?? Unless he means it was one of the police forces that went into army service, but I'd have to look at the unit marking. Looked at unit marking, but on iPad can't tell much except it was marked, then changed unit name at some point.

Mismatched trigger turns me off. I can deal with a mismatched or blank firing pin or no number on the rear toggle pin (which would be correct for a 1914 anyway).

So, I think $1500 is too much.

That said the H on the left where acceptance and proofs are is cool and never heard of a cactus stamp? But the WaA stamping would have been added post WWI.

Lets look at history of the gun.

WWI, then at some point went into police service (not necessarily reworked at that time), and then either while in police service or then taken into police service (again I would need to look at unit marking) it received a mag and sear safety (see our book or the FAQ). The mag safety was removed in the 30's.

Note, yes guns were officially reworked, for many reasons. Some Lugers were kept in army service, some hidden, some went to police, some were kept by officers or senior non coms after WWI.

[Geo99]

The stamp all the way to the right of the acceptance stamps, the one that is on all WWI Lugers, is what I referred to as the "cactus". I guess I wasn't thinking - I know better than that - I meant the "Imperial Eagle", which I believe is the correct terminology for that stamp.

Anyway, the mismatched trigger is a big concern for me too, as I try to only buy all numbers matching guns.

Ed - Are you saying it could have been refinished when it was reworked for police or Nazi service? To me, the finish looks amazing for having been in service from 1914 - 1945.

- Geo

[alvin]

General feeling is that Germany had many guns, German's war depended on heavy weapons, and pistol played minor role in service. When volume was big and many instances were not used to the extreme limit, certain percentage would be left in nice shape today. Not very surprising.

But, that's only the big context. Given a particular instance,,,,,,,,

The receiver must be refinished in the rework processes. WaA and E/H added, no halo, staying under blue, current blue could not be original. One grip frame, the magazine safety cut was welded back, finish in surrounding area must be damaged, it needs to be reblued.

The toggle,,,,,It's a little bit surprise to see the main spring hook is also blued. On DWM, it's hardened in light grey color. On this one, does it look like being blued? Maybe not, hard to tell based on pictures.

[Geo99]

Alvin -

Yes, I see now, that mainspring connecting hook is definitely blued. They are usually white.
I think I'm going to pass on this one. Too many issues for too much $. Now if I could get it for 1300, OK, but not 1800.

Thanks to all for helping me see things I might have missed.
- Geo