New Project! For shooters!

[G.T.]

Hello to all! Well, as you all pretty much already know, I have recently been learning, and applying what I'm learning, in the art of Luger barrel replacement! I have always wanted to make my own barrels, but have lacked the machines to properly mill the barrel bands and sight bases, plus the other secondary operations necessary for a quality barrel..... The more re-barreling work I do, the less interested in collecting I've become, so I am starting to think quite a ways out of the box so to speak... ... So, I thought, why not make a Sport Target shooter set up, comparatively low cost, with as simple of features that can be preformed, but still add up to a better target set up then what the Luger was originally designed for?.....So, I have teamed up with Olle on the forum, to help me in the milling operations he is so very capable of. And I can perform all the lathe, and of course fitting and indexing operations to both start and finish the project! ..... ... And, with this post, I am confident to say, Olle has been exceeding my expectations!!! And it appears this joint project will indeed come to pass! Certainly at least for a few sets unless we encounter unforeseen difficulties? My main worry at this point is overall barrel mass? It doesn't take too long of a bull barrel configuration to make the Luger somewhat un-reliable, and I used to have this discussion with John V. Martz... He had actually made a long barrel and cut it down until it was reliable with out changing any other aspect of the gun....It got pretty short! That is why my one of a kind John V. Martz 5" .30 slab side barrel custom Target Luger has slab sides?? He didn't think it would work, and I didn't know, but it did, and does, work well! So, basically, (our initial offering) will be a 9mm, 4" 5" or 6" barrel approx. .800" in dia, bull barrel with slab cut sides, and a front sight base cut directly into the top barrel dia. We are nearly finished with the first 4" prototype and it will have a square top front sight blade and a u cut notch (same as some Swiss) on the original rear sight. Other options will come available as they prove worthy.. Hopefully Olle can post a few pictures of the prototype operations, both to show the quality and amount of effort that goes into a project that appears simple, but is far from it when the tools actually meet the steel! More later! Let me know at: gctomeks@msn.com if you have any interest in one! Best to all, til....lat'r....GT....

[nukem556]

Hey Gerald.....any plans to try and fit a Micro or MMC type adjustable sight to a rear toggle?

[G.T.]

As the front sight base is integral with the barrel dia. it will be very much on plain with an original set up.... to keep cost down, and of course to keep it simple... the existing v notch rear sight will be modified, but to what extent, we don't yet know??... best all, til...lat'r...GT....

[DonVoigt]

GT and Ollie, well done!

A true labor of love; can't wait to see the results.

nukem,
I believe there is nothing short of an original Navy sight type rear will hold up to the violence of the toggle movement; I think Ollie pretty much proved it with his experience with his cast sight replacement. JMHO.

[G.T.]

Hi Don, although there are many custom rear sights on Lugers, it is probably the most harsh environment a rear sight could ever experience!!!!!! ....... even the original navy sights loosen up pretty quickly when shot a lot.... If I ever incorporate a custom rear, it will be designed in conjunction with a Navy toggle.... ...... best to you, til....lat'r.....GT

[Paladinpainter]

GT-
Based on my experience with the 6" barrel you made for my gun, the thicker barrel will raise the front sight high enough to work with an existing rear sight. You'll have to fiddle around to get the exact height you need. I found Brownell's sight blank for the 98 Mauser a good place to start. The dovetail is different, but that's what files are for.
Go Team!
John

[G.T.]

Hi John, yes! that is our pre-project choice, the tall Brownells K98k square top blade... We are cutting the dovetails for a tight Luger original front sight, and will hand file the Mauser to fit. If it works out, then we will cut for a tight Mauser... very slight difference?.... ....That's the plan! til....lat'r.....GT

[nukem556]

I dunno....1911 .45s have adjustable sights that hold up over thousands of rounds, and the velocity and G forces are all at once, in one direction....I'd think the "rolling" action of the rear toggle, would spread the forces over more of an area at a slower rate....then again, I'm no engineer.

[G.T.]

I'm not sure as well!? I've just noticed going from tight to loose??? ......... Like my dad used to say, "Son, it's not the long fall that kills you! It's the stop!" .............GT...

[Edward Tinker]

This is a work in progress, but here are pictures of how it looked a week or so back

[G.T.]

Hi Rick! Always enjoy hearing from you on my threads! Your knowledgeable observations and sage advice carry a lot of weight here at G.T. Specialties! Thanks for all, best to you, til...lat'r....GT......

[G.T.]

Since the pic's Ed put up, we have the front sight dovetail cut, and tooling is on the way for the ramp and extractor cuts! Almost there! BTW, right now it's all Olle! ... I thought I was accurate on measurements and such? He makes me look like a cub scout in that regard! ......... A true perfectionist, all he needs is a good Bridgeport!... he'd machine the bottom of the world flat, cure that spinning thing???.... ..... til...lat'r....GT

[Olle]

....and here's a picture of the dovetail with a Luger sight in it. I believe the plan is to use a Mauser K98 sight, and this will look much better. Now I'm waiting for the tooling for the feed ramp and the extractor cut, and once I have that I should be able to wrap it up in an hour or two.

[Edward Tinker]

Would it hurt integrity to round the edges in front of the sight?

[Olle]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Would it hurt integrity to round the edges in front of the sight?

No, it wouldn't hurt at all, I was actually thinking about breaking the edges a bit but I'll leave it for the final finish work.

Doing a full roundover would be trickier, as it would require either precise machining or some careful work with a file. A slight bevel on the top front edge would be pretty easy to machine though.

[Paladinpainter]

Beautiful, Olle!
If the mass of your stier gewehrlauf has about the same mass and an artillery barrel, the gun should function just fine. Can you tell us anything about the trigger system ?
Go Team!

[Lugerdoc]

GT. You will probably want to do some investigating of some modified recoil springs, since the heavier the barrel, a lighter recoil spring will be required for full recoil of the toggle assy. in the case of the GPC 16+ inch "carbine" barrel, a one piece recoil spring with about 14 turns will allow full recoil, but doesn't have enough strength to return the toggle and load the next round. Perhaps a dual spring system, as in the Radom, Glocks, etc may be the answer. TH

[G.T.]

Hi Ed! As this was/is a proto. we are mainly tying to establish what we can and can not do, both with economy of labor, and tools / materials.... Nothing is ruled out, but some secondary operations are as time consuming as the complete job all together? But, my plan is to have the front sight base relief cut radius, start slightly back from the muzzle... That way, I can chamfer the diameter, and recess / counter bore the full dia. of the muzzle, everything else remain the same? Stability for this cut may be an issue that will give us trouble.... We might /will find that out on number two! ..........First, we finish number one!...... best to all, til...lat'r...GT....

[Olle]

Originally Posted by Paladinpainter

Beautiful, Olle!
If the mass of your stier gewehrlauf has about the same mass and an artillery barrel, the gun should function just fine. Can you tell us anything about the trigger system ?
Go Team!

Yeah, the weight might be a problem but there's still some room for relief cuts. I guess we need to weigh it after final machining and make that decision later. After all it's a bull barrel, so IMO it would be better to experiment with springs than to cut too much off of it. As far as the trigger goes, this is not my project and I don't know what the actual owner has in mind.

[Ron Wood]

That is a super looking barrel and a great project you have undertaken for the Luger community! (If I ever get out from under a bunch of other projects, not likely , I would love to tackle a target Luger with one of those barrels.

To get off topic a bit, with regard to the sights and trigger, there are some neat old articles in gun magazines from the 60s and 70s. "Skeeter" Skelton wrote and article "For love of a long-barreled Luger" or something like that that featured a specially made MMC sight adapted to the Luger toggle that appeared to be a viable option. I have a couple of MMC sights that I got from Hugh Clark that might be modified to fit (the adjustment screws are too wide to fit between the receiver rails).

I have posted an article from May 1974 "Shooting Times" a couple of times in the past that shows how to tune a Luger trigger and add set screws for trigger pull and over-travel adjustment.

The Luger is has potential for a really fine target pistol, and I hope your project encourages Luger aficionados to "go for it"!
Ron