?? for the pros.

[Herb]

This is a hypothetical situation. 'A' buys and all original Luger which has about 25% finish remaining and would grade in the NRA area of Very Good and pays $750 for it. On the other side of town 'B' buys an identical original Luger with little or no finish remaining for $200. 'B' decides to refinish it due to the sad looking condition. He spends $200 to get it professionally restored, not just reblued, but restored, dings, rust, etc. removed, and all appropriated parts strawed. 'B' now has a very nice Luger, fully restored and has invested $400, in it. According to NRA grading it is now rated as Good as it has been reblued. This particular Luger generally retails for $2,000 in a factory new condition. For your answer, assume that both Lugers were 100% matching, had no replacement parts and were equal in mechanical condition. If both 'A' and 'B' decide to sell their Lugers, What prices could be realized by both, any why do you think so? Disreguard the purists, which one would you prefer and why?

[wterrell]

I would prefer the honest pistol.

If I wanted a shooter, there are modern-made fascimilies.

[Edward Tinker]

Hey, I don't think I'm any pro here Herb, but here is my 2 cents.

I would take the reblued, although normally I'd take the other one with real honest wear. If you can pick up a cheap Luger for 200, then spruce her up for another couple of hundred, I say go for it.

I would take a gun with honest hard use for $400 over the beat up and reblued one tho. (but not if I could get one for $200)...

[lugerholsterrepair]

Herb,

What price would be realized by both?

A's is still worth $750. Unless he paid more than, or less than market price and is going to get his comeuppance when he sells.

B is getting a smokin bargain on the purchase and I think Thor charges slightly more for a rust blue much less easing out dings and strawing. Now if he had Thor do the restoration I think he would have an $1100.00 or $1200.00 pistol to sell. At least that is what Thor is selling some of his for. I think they are pretty enough to warrent it.

What would I prefer? I think the restored piece if it is done the way Thor does it. 25% finish is a little less than I would want in a $750.00 Luger. Blueing is put on there for a reason and if 75% of the protective coating is missing there is not enough to protect it and not enough to tell a person what the pistol originally looked like. As you must know by now I am not a purist but a practicalist. I was once a parachutist but the pay was lousy. Jerry Burney

[Johnny Peppers]

Why the $550 difference in price if you want to compare how each did on their purchase? If B had also spent $750 on his purchase then paid $200 to have it blued and strawed, he would probably get a little over half his investment back, while A with his unrestored Luger might lose only $100 or so. Wouldn't that be the only fair comparison?
Maybe I am out of touch, but I just haven't seen reblued common Lugers selling in the $1100/1200 range. You can buy mid 90% original common lugers for that kind of money, and nice 1920's era commercials for almost half that.

[Mark A]

I'd like four of your 200 dollar lugers please.
100% matching of course. No need to wrap 'em I'll just pick 'em up at your place.

[Herb]

Johnny, re-read the question carefully. 'A' did not refinish the Luger, only 'B' did and only spent $200 for a total investment of $400. If you refer to the available price guides, a reblued Luger will grade NRA good. In that condition it should command the corresponding price. 'B' decides that he will sell his Luger for $750 dollars as does 'A' to get his investment back to but another more desireavle Luger. Given the choice, which would you consider buying? My intent here is to determine just what a Luger in 'Good' condition will bring and to determine what a person desireing a Luger would pay based upon a certain condition and just what is that desireable condition. Mark, when I find them at that price I will let you in on the source! (Maybe) and you are welcome at 'my place' anytime.

[Thor]

Johnny, I have sold 7-8 reblued Lugers for between $1000-$1245 EACH in the past two months. The problem with this idea is a steady supply of beater Lugers (shooters that have taken a beating) is not really there unless you want to pay around $600 for them. http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=5340706
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=5245610
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=4577644
A couple of examples. This even surprises me, but I guess people will pay for nice shooters.

[Johnny Peppers]

On one of the auctions an Ithaca 1911A1 recently went to over $2300, but you can buy them in really nice condition in the $900/1100 range. Apparently the bidder was satisfied with his purchase and thought he got a good buy, but he would have a hard time recouping half his purchase price unless he sold it to the guy he outbid.

[wterrell]

Why must a person have the 'old' metal upon which to reblue?
Why have the 'old' trigger on which to pull?

There is something here! Is it wishing that we could have an old Luger in much better shape than we have (without the investment) and hoping that the casual admirer will not be cognizant of a restoration or rude enough to mention it? Is a restoration job procured and performed to fool the unwashed masses who do not own Lugers?

And something to consider: Does the owner of an old honest gun decide that the original finish has no value? Does he want the admiring public to assume that the pistol had never been touched?

[AGE]

Wes,

I have avoided these arguments in the past, but I'm going to risk an answer to you. Certainly, even shooters (me too) will admit that original fine condition guns (like Lugers) are more desirable than refurbished ones just like original antique cars, etc. in fine condition are more desirable than rebuilt or restored ones.

However, items that are used (like clothes, cars, and guns) do eventually show wear and after a time, lots of wear. I must admit that I like nice (finishes on cars and guns, clothes, etc.). Most of us eventually replace worn clothes and cars that are becoming shabby rather than restore, repair or rebuild old ones. We might not do this if we could refinish or rebuild them like we can old guns.

I have been shooting for 59 years. Shooting handguns for 47 years. It's great fun and a non firing gun in my opinion is worthless. An unused gun is a shame (to me, not to a historian--I admit there is a difference).

I admired Lugers as neeeat guns for 30 or 40 years before buying one (a refinished shooter) last spring. It isn't that I couldn't afford one before this, it's just that I chose to spend my hobby money shooting more modern guns (and Colt SAAs--talk about expensive) rather than buying Lugers. I am completely satisfied with my first purchase, but I became enamored with Thor's refinished guns recently and decided to blow some more $$ on one of these.

Again, I am a shooter not a collector or historian. I have no interest in German history or artifacts, but Lugers are neeeat. You couldn't give me a 98 Mauser or P-38 (they don't turn me on like a Luger does--sorry RK). Sorry if you can't see my point of view, but my gun from Thor satisfies my needs (desires) while saving me thousands of $$ for ammo to enjoy shooting my toys.

When I am through enjoying my hobby, my guns are unlikely to be mistaken for original unrefinished collector guns. Who knows, I might even have Hugh put S&W revolver sights and a long barrel on Thor's product if it suits me. (I won't tell him, he might cry.) Even Hitler didn't have one of these.

Anyway, if it won't shoot out it goes (no matter how pretty). I have no concern for the guy who buys my guns except that I hope he enjoys them. Also, I have no concern for whoever admires my guns--I bought them for me and as long as I admire them I will be happy.

[wterrell]

Age,

Then, why not just shoot modern knock-offs of the Luger? The materials are better. The engineering is the same. Mauser even used the same tooling in the production of their 1970's versions. There are stainless steel versions to be had. Why modify the old iron?

[Dwight Gruber]

[quote]Originally posted by wes:
<strong>Then, why not just shoot modern knock-offs of the Luger?...Why modify the old iron?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because you can still find a cheap Luger and take it to your friendly local rebluer to have it buffed&blued cheaper than you can buy a '70s Mauser or a stainless, when you can find one, and not have to go through the whole buy-from-another-state hassle to boot.

Not that I am recommending this course of action, mind you, just providing one answer to your question.

--Dwight

[wterrell]

Hell, I just sold a 1970's AE for $800. That is much better than a $800 redo.

[Mark A]

You pose an interesting question. I myself have
wanted a luger for forty years. This summer I decided to have one. My knowledge at that point
was near zero. I began searching around Denver
gun shops, pawn shops. I found a 70's Mauser
swiss style which I nearly bought. I went to
Crossroads gunshow recently and found my 1941
Mauser. This gun excites me more than the other.
Sense of History perhaps.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I agree Mark, A new Mauser, stainless steel is meaningless to me. I consider it to be like a Smith and Wesson revolver or something . There is truly somthing special about a pre 1945 Luger. I can't tell you what it is exactly but it's like art. You know it when you see it.Sort of like a masters painting compared to a print. Jerry Burney

[Mark A]

Yeah what he said!

[AGE]

Wes,

Dwight's answer is close to what I would say. I don't see modern Lugers very often. I paid $500 for my shooter which someone else had already nicely reblued. I have no interest in having even this gun refinished (again). My first purchase at $500 was still not cheap in my opinion--but it let me find out what I really thought about Lugers. I find that I like them, but if I found that I didn't, the first one would probably be traded for something else.

Maybe your 1970s AE would have been just as appealing to me as Thor's gun, I don't know.
Anyway, some gun purchases are not totally logical. I already had my 1936 shooter when I bought Thor's product. Did I need another? Hardly? Well it's fun looking, buying, shooting, etc. (Maybe even selling--I don't do that often enough).

[Thor]

AGE!! I took the 1915 DWM out tonight, ran a patch of CLENZOIL down the bore, and a fresh light coat on the bluing and strawing! NICE LUGER DUDE! Getting it ready for it's new home!

[wterrell]

[quote]There is truly somthing special about a pre 1945 Luger. I can't tell you what it is exactly but it's like art <hr></blockquote>

Jerry, you have finally put it to words! That something special is embodied by the whole pistol and is captured by its appearance. It speaks to you.

With a restoration, it ceases speaking.

[quote] Sort of like a masters painting compared to a print <hr></blockquote>