Possible acquisition, advice needed

BreakerDave · 06-13-2006, 01:38 PM

I have been seriously thinking of getting a collector's grade Luger. (I used to own a shooter grade one, but I sold it years ago when I needed some money.) I have recently found a Luger online that fits my basic criteria (military issue, WWII years war production). The real issues now are price and condition. From what I can tell, the dealer has a good reputation. However, the price ($1800) seems to be a little high given the gun's condition. The gun I am looking at has a lot of "minor spotting" on it. The front strap, rear strap, barrel, and other points all have minor spots. The salesperson I spoke with thought the spotting would clean up with some TLC and #4 brass but if it was that easy to clean up, they'd do it themselves and charge more. I am not trying to be nasty but I have to think that they're trying to shift the risk of a making a mistake to the customer here. It's smart from a business point of view, but it makes me wonder.

What is the deal with spotting? I thought spotting would reduce the graded condition of the gun's blued finish... Can a gun with spotting still be at 95%? How much should an all matching, early WWII military Mauser with minor spotting run? Is spotting to be expected with military issue guns?

Thank you in advance for your input.

Dave

Frank · 06-13-2006, 04:48 PM

Dave, it depends on the variety of Third Reich Luger!! For a K-Date, it's a steal. For a 1939 or 1940 Code 42, it may be too high priced!! Let us know more about the Luger and we can assist you!!

BTW Welcome to the Forum!

BreakerDave · 06-13-2006, 05:26 PM

Thanks for the welcome to the Forum. -The luger I am looking at is a 1940 Code 42 with a FXO magazine. It supposedly has an excellent bore and grips (no million dollar chip).

I guess the thing about the spotting is that what I am saying is what the salesperson is telling me. I have seen some photos of the gun and there is only one photo that depicts the spotting. There is some spotting on the rail on the gun's right side and there looks like there was some spotting on the right side of the frame near the post of the takedown latch. There appears to have been an attempt to clean this area up. At first glance, I (and a friend) thought the marred finish was the result of errant punch strikes but the salesperson was convinced that this was from an attempt to clean up spotting.

I spoke to my gunsmith and he said that spotting or freckling are like tiny pits in the finish. Without looking at the gun, he was hesitant to say if they could be removed / minimized. He cautioned that even if I was able to get the spot out it might leave behind something akin to a watermark in the finish as a tell-tale mark that something had been buffed out.

I am tempted to post the link but I don't want it to seem like I am attacking the company or their judgment. I'm trying to learn the standards by how I should be grading this firearm. I understand that the company's view is old, military firearms need a bit of leniency in grading. However, it seems to me that it is difficult to say something is 95% blue yet it has many places where there is minor spotting. Wouldn't spotting take the grading down?

I know the question of value is largely dependent on what the two parties (buyer & seller) agree to. What I'm willing to pay maybe different from what someone else might be willing to pay and both may vary from what the seller is willing to accept. I know the seller is absolutely inflexible about his price. I'm not an expert but it seems high to me. I suppose if I had Donald Trump's money I wouldn't care about paying a premium for the gun that seems to be a decent example of an early WWII Luger. Of course, I don't have Donald Trump's money so I'm reluctant to throw out money just so I can get a piece that on the whole appears to be decent.

Ron Smith · 06-13-2006, 09:50 PM

Hi Dave,

A 40/42 is one of the more common variations. 135,000+ were produced. In my opinion, a 40/42 at $1800 would have to be spot free. If you look around you could find a better deal.

I will now leave the expertise to Frank. He is the resident Mauser Luger expert. You won't get any better advice.

Ron

BreakerDave · 06-13-2006, 10:29 PM

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the input. It gives me a better sense of things and reinforces my thought about the price being on the high side given the condition.

Dave

Tomathvl · 06-14-2006, 07:36 AM

Dave,
I totally agree with the venerable sage, erstwhile River Rat from Orygun, Ron.
Tom

Frank · 06-14-2006, 08:41 AM

I can't add add thing. Looks like you are on the right track! Good Luck on your search!

Ron Smith · 06-14-2006, 09:30 AM

Hey Tom,

Sage and Erswhile really improves the flavor of a good pot-roast.

How ya been?

Ron

Tomathvl · 06-14-2006, 08:36 PM

Hi Ron,
Doing well, anything on the green side of the grass is a plus.
Tom

06-13-2006, 01:38 PM	#1
BreakerDave New User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Possible acquisition, advice needed I have been seriously thinking of getting a collector's grade Luger. (I used to own a shooter grade one, but I sold it years ago when I needed some money.) I have recently found a Luger online that fits my basic criteria (military issue, WWII years war production). The real issues now are price and condition. From what I can tell, the dealer has a good reputation. However, the price ($1800) seems to be a little high given the gun's condition. The gun I am looking at has a lot of "minor spotting" on it. The front strap, rear strap, barrel, and other points all have minor spots. The salesperson I spoke with thought the spotting would clean up with some TLC and #4 brass but if it was that easy to clean up, they'd do it themselves and charge more. I am not trying to be nasty but I have to think that they're trying to shift the risk of a making a mistake to the customer here. It's smart from a business point of view, but it makes me wonder. What is the deal with spotting? I thought spotting would reduce the graded condition of the gun's blued finish... Can a gun with spotting still be at 95%? How much should an all matching, early WWII military Mauser with minor spotting run? Is spotting to be expected with military issue guns? Thank you in advance for your input. Dave

06-14-2006, 09:30 AM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hey Tom, Sage and Erswhile really improves the flavor of a good pot-roast. How ya been? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-13-2006, 04:48 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Dave, it depends on the variety of Third Reich Luger!! For a K-Date, it's a steal. For a 1939 or 1940 Code 42, it may be too high priced!! Let us know more about the Luger and we can assist you!! BTW Welcome to the Forum!

06-13-2006, 05:26 PM	#3
BreakerDave New User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the welcome to the Forum. -The luger I am looking at is a 1940 Code 42 with a FXO magazine. It supposedly has an excellent bore and grips (no million dollar chip). I guess the thing about the spotting is that what I am saying is what the salesperson is telling me. I have seen some photos of the gun and there is only one photo that depicts the spotting. There is some spotting on the rail on the gun's right side and there looks like there was some spotting on the right side of the frame near the post of the takedown latch. There appears to have been an attempt to clean this area up. At first glance, I (and a friend) thought the marred finish was the result of errant punch strikes but the salesperson was convinced that this was from an attempt to clean up spotting. I spoke to my gunsmith and he said that spotting or freckling are like tiny pits in the finish. Without looking at the gun, he was hesitant to say if they could be removed / minimized. He cautioned that even if I was able to get the spot out it might leave behind something akin to a watermark in the finish as a tell-tale mark that something had been buffed out. I am tempted to post the link but I don't want it to seem like I am attacking the company or their judgment. I'm trying to learn the standards by how I should be grading this firearm. I understand that the company's view is old, military firearms need a bit of leniency in grading. However, it seems to me that it is difficult to say something is 95% blue yet it has many places where there is minor spotting. Wouldn't spotting take the grading down? I know the question of value is largely dependent on what the two parties (buyer & seller) agree to. What I'm willing to pay maybe different from what someone else might be willing to pay and both may vary from what the seller is willing to accept. I know the seller is absolutely inflexible about his price. I'm not an expert but it seems high to me. I suppose if I had Donald Trump's money I wouldn't care about paying a premium for the gun that seems to be a decent example of an early WWII Luger. Of course, I don't have Donald Trump's money so I'm reluctant to throw out money just so I can get a piece that on the whole appears to be decent.

06-13-2006, 09:50 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Dave, A 40/42 is one of the more common variations. 135,000+ were produced. In my opinion, a 40/42 at $1800 would have to be spot free. If you look around you could find a better deal. I will now leave the expertise to Frank. He is the resident Mauser Luger expert. You won't get any better advice. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-13-2006, 10:29 PM	#5
BreakerDave New User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Ron, Thanks for the input. It gives me a better sense of things and reinforces my thought about the price being on the high side given the condition. Dave

06-14-2006, 07:36 AM	#6
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Dave, I totally agree with the venerable sage, erstwhile River Rat from Orygun, Ron. Tom

06-14-2006, 08:41 AM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	I can't add add thing. Looks like you are on the right track! Good Luck on your search!

06-14-2006, 08:36 PM	#9
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Hi Ron, Doing well, anything on the green side of the grass is a plus. Tom