1900 AE newby question

Karl · 10-29-2004, 04:52 PM

I just purchased my first early Luger, a mismatched 1900 AE refinished by Ted Green. There are a few things that seem unusual to me and I would appreciate feedback from experienced early Luger owners.

The toggle pulls back easily for about 2/3 of its travel and then becomes difficult to pull back to the fully opened position. I soon discovered that the hard pull begins when the leaf spring makes contact with the top of the grip strap, creating a shortened fulcrum point. Is this normal?

When the toggle is pulled fully back it will stay opened as if the hold open is engaged. A slight tap will send it slamming back into battery as normal. There does not appear to be any binding in the cannon mechanism. When the gun is assembled with the coupling link disengaged from the leaf spring the operation of the toggle is smooth as glass. Please advise. KFS

Dwight Gruber · 10-29-2004, 07:22 PM

The drop-down link which connects the toggle to the recoil spring of a 1900-series Luger is different from the link for a coil-spring gun. As a beginning, I suggest you explore the possibility that you have the wrong link.

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 10-29-2004, 07:58 PM

KFS, I do have M1900 recoil links and recoil springs available, if needed. TH

Karl · 11-01-2004, 01:36 PM

Dwight,

Thanks for the suggestion. It seems to me that it has to be the link or the spring or both. The coupling link is shorter than a P-08 link, however, the entire toggle assembly is mismatched to the gun.
KFS

Dwight Gruber · 11-01-2004, 08:00 PM

Iirc the shorter link is appropriate for the 1900, however, if you have a later model toggle chain all bets are off.

--Dwight

Thor · 11-01-2004, 08:15 PM

1900 AE SN 8748

Thor · 11-01-2004, 09:00 PM

The other Side

Dwight Gruber · 11-01-2004, 10:08 PM

So much for the mismatch theory.

I took the right grip off a 1900 and made the test. As the action recoils and the breechblock moves back the leaf recoil spring flattens itself against the inside of the rear grip strap, "loading" the spring somewhat as the effective length and spring curve change.

Is the recoil spring original, or a new reproduction? Here's why I ask.

I bought and installed a new recoil spring for a 1900, and had exactly the same sticking-on-full-recoil problem. It turned out that the "hooks" at the top of the spring which loop over the connecting stirrup were a little bit long, sticking out a bit. At full recoil they stuck up against the bottom of the breechblock, and kept the action from returning to battery. In the process this left a long gouge on the underside of the breechblock.

The solution was to file the ends of the loops until they no longer contacted the breechblock at full recoil, being very careful not to file them so much that they no longer held onto the stirrup. Problem solved.

This may or may not relate to your problem, good luck.

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 11-02-2004, 09:45 AM

KFS, Even if you have one of the new repro springs, it is important that you have it properly installed. I've seen a few where the hook at the very bottom of the spring was worn/broken off, so that the spring lifted out of the notch at the bottom of the frame, when under full recoil. This is not proper. TH

Karl · 11-02-2004, 03:51 PM

Ted, Thanks for posting the pictures, I'll download them for my records. Dwight and Tom thanks for the advise. Although the spring appears to be old, there are a pair of scratches about 7/32" long beginning at the rear edge of the breachblock. They seem to correspond with the inside edges of the "hooks" on the spring which appear shiny and slightly rounded from contact. They are obviously new scratches since the gun was recently refinished.

Could this be a 9mm leaf spring or were they all the same?

As long as I have your collective experience to draw upon, what is the best way to remove and install the leaf spring? KFS

Thor · 11-02-2004, 06:28 PM

Karl, let me know if you need this fixed, now that we know the problem I can reblue the breechblock and cut the hoooks down to clear. This is an educational thing for me too. I will fix the hooks and reblue and all you have to pay is return shipping. I want you happy with your Luger sir!

Dwight Gruber · 11-02-2004, 09:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Karl:
Could this be a 9mm leaf spring or were they all the same?<hr /></blockquote>I'd have to guess that the dimensions of the spring are the same, .30 or 9mm. I'd also guess that the 9mm spring might be stronger.

Sounds like Thor's got you covered, glad I could help out.

--Dwight

Karl · 11-03-2004, 09:52 AM

Ted, Thank you for your kind offer, you are a real gentleman, however, it is unnecessary. The scratches on the underside of the breechblock are insignificant. They are more of a polished mark on the surface than a scratch into the metal, and hardly warrant reblueing. I will take good care of the gun but I do intend to shoot it occasionally and a small amount of wear is inevitable.

I intend to replace the leaf spring myself and would greatly appreciate any advise you can provide. I will be interesting to see if the replacement spring requires fitting.

Thanks to again Dwight and Tom as well. Without the Luger Forum I'd never get this fixed.
KFS

10-29-2004, 04:52 PM	#1
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	1900 AE newby question I just purchased my first early Luger, a mismatched 1900 AE refinished by Ted Green. There are a few things that seem unusual to me and I would appreciate feedback from experienced early Luger owners. The toggle pulls back easily for about 2/3 of its travel and then becomes difficult to pull back to the fully opened position. I soon discovered that the hard pull begins when the leaf spring makes contact with the top of the grip strap, creating a shortened fulcrum point. Is this normal? When the toggle is pulled fully back it will stay opened as if the hold open is engaged. A slight tap will send it slamming back into battery as normal. There does not appear to be any binding in the cannon mechanism. When the gun is assembled with the coupling link disengaged from the leaf spring the operation of the toggle is smooth as glass. Please advise. KFS

10-29-2004, 07:58 PM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	KFS, I do have M1900 recoil links and recoil springs available, if needed. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-01-2004, 08:15 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	1900 AE SN 8748 __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-01-2004, 09:00 PM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	The other Side __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-02-2004, 09:45 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	KFS, Even if you have one of the new repro springs, it is important that you have it properly installed. I've seen a few where the hook at the very bottom of the spring was worn/broken off, so that the spring lifted out of the notch at the bottom of the frame, when under full recoil. This is not proper. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-29-2004, 07:22 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	The drop-down link which connects the toggle to the recoil spring of a 1900-series Luger is different from the link for a coil-spring gun. As a beginning, I suggest you explore the possibility that you have the wrong link. --Dwight

11-01-2004, 01:36 PM	#4
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	Dwight, Thanks for the suggestion. It seems to me that it has to be the link or the spring or both. The coupling link is shorter than a P-08 link, however, the entire toggle assembly is mismatched to the gun. KFS

11-01-2004, 08:00 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Iirc the shorter link is appropriate for the 1900, however, if you have a later model toggle chain all bets are off. --Dwight

11-01-2004, 10:08 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	So much for the mismatch theory. I took the right grip off a 1900 and made the test. As the action recoils and the breechblock moves back the leaf recoil spring flattens itself against the inside of the rear grip strap, "loading" the spring somewhat as the effective length and spring curve change. Is the recoil spring original, or a new reproduction? Here's why I ask. I bought and installed a new recoil spring for a 1900, and had exactly the same sticking-on-full-recoil problem. It turned out that the "hooks" at the top of the spring which loop over the connecting stirrup were a little bit long, sticking out a bit. At full recoil they stuck up against the bottom of the breechblock, and kept the action from returning to battery. In the process this left a long gouge on the underside of the breechblock. The solution was to file the ends of the loops until they no longer contacted the breechblock at full recoil, being very careful not to file them so much that they no longer held onto the stirrup. Problem solved. This may or may not relate to your problem, good luck. --Dwight

11-02-2004, 03:51 PM	#10
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	Ted, Thanks for posting the pictures, I'll download them for my records. Dwight and Tom thanks for the advise. Although the spring appears to be old, there are a pair of scratches about 7/32" long beginning at the rear edge of the breachblock. They seem to correspond with the inside edges of the "hooks" on the spring which appear shiny and slightly rounded from contact. They are obviously new scratches since the gun was recently refinished. Could this be a 9mm leaf spring or were they all the same? As long as I have your collective experience to draw upon, what is the best way to remove and install the leaf spring? KFS

11-02-2004, 06:28 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Karl, let me know if you need this fixed, now that we know the problem I can reblue the breechblock and cut the hoooks down to clear. This is an educational thing for me too. I will fix the hooks and reblue and all you have to pay is return shipping. I want you happy with your Luger sir! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-02-2004, 09:27 PM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Karl: <strong>Could this be a 9mm leaf spring or were they all the same?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I'd have to guess that the dimensions of the spring are the same, .30 or 9mm. I'd also guess that the 9mm spring might be stronger. Sounds like Thor's got you covered, glad I could help out. --Dwight

11-03-2004, 09:52 AM	#13
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	Ted, Thank you for your kind offer, you are a real gentleman, however, it is unnecessary. The scratches on the underside of the breechblock are insignificant. They are more of a polished mark on the surface than a scratch into the metal, and hardly warrant reblueing. I will take good care of the gun but I do intend to shoot it occasionally and a small amount of wear is inevitable. I intend to replace the leaf spring myself and would greatly appreciate any advise you can provide. I will be interesting to see if the replacement spring requires fitting. Thanks to again Dwight and Tom as well. Without the Luger Forum I'd never get this fixed. KFS