1941 Dated Mauser Banner

[Mark A]

I believe this is a VOPO reworked pistol.
Best described on page 282 Lugers at Random.
"1934 Mauser German Contract" Has proofs 48 & 49
Eagle over N, Eagle over swastica with L. Alsowhat appears to be proof 11 but this one has been partially obliterated with an X. There is another overstamped mark on the left side of the receiver near the serial number. (64xx) no letter.
The barrel has been replaced and is near new. overall is good 98% blue, slight holster wear.
ugly plastic grips. Came with 2 wood bottom mags & reproduction holster.
I would be grateful for any information on history or value.

[Mark A]

O and another thing, I'm thinking of getting some wood grips. Has any one bought any from Numrich?
Good stuff? Some other sourse better?
Thanks

[Roadkill]

Mark, sounds VOPO thru & thru, they go from $400 on upto about $600, history is as for any other WWII era date Luger, impossible to determine without more unit marks. These were gathered together after WWII by the Eastern Block countries, reworked, dip blued, parts matched that functioned, restamped, then issued to the Eastern German (VOPO) police and army. contact Hugh Clark here reference grips. They don't come any better.
You have a good example of a working gun that will be fun to shoot.
RK

[Kyrie]

Hi Mark!

Based on the information provided itâ??s impossible to say what this one might be - other than a rebuild. Some pictures might help :-)

Ugly plastic grips are frequently found on the Lugers imported from the CIS. A replaced barrel is common enough, and this could have been done here in the States (Is the barrel proofed? If so how?).

That said, this one doesnâ??t sound like a VoPo. It might be an East German rebuild, but not a Volkspolizei pistol. To be identifiable as a VoPo pistol it must have, at the very least, the sunburst with a shield and number that would indicate it has been Volkspolizei inspected and accepted. It should also have the wreath "A. B. nn" stamp (where â??nnâ?� is a two digit number) indicating acceptance by the Abnahmebauftragten (Acceptance Official/Agency). Here are pictures of representative examples of these stamps.

Volkspolizei Inspection & Acceptance Stamps

Hope this helps some!

Warm regards,

Kyrie

[Roadkill]

Kyrie, Thanks, I humbly stand corrected. A little two watt bulb failed to illuminate, I thought VOPO + East German = same.

RK

[Kyrie]

Hi Roadkill!

I know all about bulb failure, having had some spectacular ones of my own (insert very wry smile here).

Warm regards,

Kyrie

[Edward Tinker]

Light bulbs going off? [img]eek.gif[/img]

Yes, those moments have occured. Kyrie, I had never heard (or remember to have logged it in memory) on the Vopo information. I have been under the impression that Vopo was a expression and assumed that most Lugers were issued to the Vopo.

So, those weapons that weren't issued to Vopo were used by?? Stored in big warehouses or arms rooms (can't spell armories today)?

[Mark A]

Barrel has "Nitro" proof; crown over N (#28 in the book). I missed it before.
The guy at the gunshow had "VOPO" on cardboard in black marker. I assumed with that kind of documentation it Had to be true!
Kenyon says some collectors call this variation a
"Mauser Military" but he thinks "police or other non-military users".
So if not VOPO then who's been whacking on my pistol with a snarbing punch and Why? HMM?
Thanks for the help guys. I don't have a magic computer camera so no pics for now.
I did slip off to the range today and fired 57 rounds through the gun. Shoots great, two failures to feed, all the brass went way up in the sky and came down with varying degrees of distortion at the case mouth. Is that normal?
Thanks again, Mark

[Kyrie]

Hi Ed!

[quote]Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
<strong>
So, those weapons that weren't issued to Vopo were used by?? Stored in big warehouses or arms rooms (can't spell armories today)?</strong><hr></blockquote>

There is, to my knowledge, no published primary source information on the uses to which the East Germans put their rebuilt Lugers. Hopefully that will change with the demise of East Germany, the Reunification, and the fading of both the need and perception for secrecy in the former DDR.

And so we know only that which we can observe, and the conclusions (really speculation, albeit informed speculation in some cases) we can reasonably draw from those observations. So far these observations and conclusions include:

1) Some East German rebuilt Lugers (and P.38â??s, PP, PPK, Kar98k, and other weapons) were used by the Volkspolizei, this conclusion based on the presence of inspection and acceptance marks associated with the Volkspolizei.

2) Some East German rebuilt Lugers (and other weapons, as above) were supplied to Warsaw Pact surrogates in the form of military aid; this conclusion based on the capture of such weapons from said surrogate forces.

3) Some East German rebuilt Lugers were given a high polish salt blue. and generally refurbished to a very high standard, and sold on the commercial market, this conclusion based on the observation that such Lugers were imported into the States briefly in the late 1980â??s.

All that said, identifying an East German rebuilt Luger can be very easy, or very hard. Lugers were given the attention they needed - and no more. The presence of East German commercial proofs are a dead giveaway, as is the presence of the Abnahmebauftragten and/or the Volkspolizei stamps. But barrels may or may not have been replaced, and generally were not replaced if the bore was in acceptable condition. If the original barrel was not replaced, it will retain its original German military proof if that proof did not contain a swastika.

For some time after the War the East Germans used the pre-swastika commercial proof marks; the C/N, C/U proofs. If a Luger is marked in all respects as a Third Reich military Luger but has what appears to be pre-swastika commercial proofs, and is not Third Reich police marked, itâ??s time to at least consider whether it might be an East German rework. Lugers with the characteristic â??bulls eyeâ?� plastic grip panels and post-war East German magazines numbered in the police style also must be at least considered to possibly be East German reworks.

If an East German Luger has renumbered parts, the style of renumbering can provide a clue as to whether it is an early, middle, or late rebuild. Early rebuilds had original numbers carefully and completely removed from replacement parts, and the correct number carefully applied in the traditional location and in the traditional style. Late rebuilds had original numbers on replacement parts â??Xâ?�ed out (or crudely ground off if the space they occupied was needed) and the new numbers struck adjacent to the old number (or in place of the old number if that number had ben ground off). The new numbers were about twice the size of the old numbers. Mid period rebuilds will show a mixture of these refurbishment styles.

East German Lugers are, I think, a rich collecting field - that few have discovered just yet :-)

Warm regards,

Kyrie

[lugerholsterrepair]

Mark A Seems as if all the brass I get out of my lugers has a pressed in dent in the case mouth. I would call it normal for Lugers.In the 9MM cal. anyway. I don't remember about .30 as I have not shot any for some time. Jerry Burney

[Roadkill]

Nope, not mine. Brass comes out nice and round. Since I started reloading I've paid very close attention to it.

RK

[Mark A]

Thanks again Gents
I have an m1a, a 1911, a ruger vaquero, A 41-410 winchester, 1889 veterli-vitroli, and misc. other firearms one each, never really thought about having multiples. Saturday I brought home my Luger, sunday I said "Honey I think I'll have to get some more of these." She said "I knew that as soon as I saw it."

[Edward Tinker]

Great information, signed up as a Cruffler [img]smile.gif[/img] and Mark, what do they say, you can't just have one, or two, or four.