Dwm?

[zeke1312]

I'm looking at a DWM and what appears to be a crown over an M or N stamped on the left side of the receiver( laying down). There is no date on the receiver. All numbers match except the magazine. Safety is marked "Geischert". Some light pitting on grip, one side has a gouge out of wood, not deep but obvious. Some pitting on left side of receiver, excellent on the right side. Knowing a picture is worth a K of words, what is even a ball park price? Oh, 9mm ,rifling is fair.

[Pete Ebbink]

Zeke,

Does yours look like this one...this is a 1908 DWM commercial :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=3406

[zeke1312]

Yes, but overall, not quite as nice as the one in picture.. Well the one I'm looking at, right side is wow, excellent, left side not bad, just ok.

[Dwight Gruber]

Zeke,

It would be useful to know if your Luger has a stock lug and a holdopen, in order to determine whether it is a 1908 or a 1914 Commercial model. Also, for the database I am keeping on the DWM commercial number series, could you please let us know the full serial number? Thanks much.

--Dwight

[George Anderson]

Zeke, the serial number will also help to I.D. the pistol, four digit with suffix or five digit. If it's five digit it would be helpful to know what the number is.

[zeke1312]

There is a stock lug. The sn is 5 digits. I now have pix but the quality is poor except for some distant shots. Right now, pix don't show sn good enough to read.

[Revolvr]

With a 5 digit serial, sounds like it might be a 1923 commercial. Is there a Crown/N on the toggle (left side not top), and another on the barrel in front of the serial number? Does it say "Germany" on the right side of the barrel extension? Are the 2 digit serial numbers on the takedown lever and side plate marked in the commercial style with the numbers on the bottom of each part?

Also look down the barrel (unloaded!) - does the top of the breech area (where a date normally is) look thinner than the sides?

Also you might measure the length of the barrel. Drop a pencil down there, mark and measure the length.

-- Dan

[zeke1312]

There is a crown over n on the left side and 2 digit sn on the takedown lever. Can't say about the other questions. If it is a 1923 commercial, what is the value for poor, good, very good, excellent pistols?

[zeke1312]

Here are some pix.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00587.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00585.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00581.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00577.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dsc00579.jpg

[zeke1312]

The seller states this luger is a 1920 commercial. They rate it as "very good".

Assuming the info is correct, what would you value the pistol at?

[Pete Ebbink]

Seller's price tag of $ 849 seems like a fair price.

Is it 9 mm or 7.65 mm ? Tag says 9 mm and barrel profile looks like it as well...

This would make a great shooter !

[Revolvr]

Not sure I can tell you what it is worth, but I might be able to provide some guidance as to what it might not be worth.

If is is NOT original finish, then even with matching parts you are looking at a shooter worth probably in the $600=$700 range. If the finish is original then the price just goes up and up. The marked price ($850) might be good.

Regarding the 1920 vs. 1923 question, from a value and collectability point of view, it really doesn't matter much. It is my understanding that the 1920's had 4 digit serial numbers, and the 1923's had 5 digit serial numbers.

At any rate when you go back to look at it, your main objective would be to determine to your satisfaction if the finish is original. Here are a couple of ideas:

I bring three things: A very bright flashlight like a Surefire, a bore light, and a small magnifying glass.

The bright flashlight is used to look for a patina in the blueing. The patina (rust) will show up under a bright light much better than ambient light. If a recent re-blue, you will not see the faint rust color. Also look for consistency - are all parts relatively even in this patina.

There are a couple places where the wear and patina are greater:

�· The front and back straps in which the blueing is often worn thin.
�· The stock lug normally has significant wear on the corners. Though this might be true on a recent re-blue.
�· That little area behind the lanyard loop. No one cleans there and if the finish is old there will definitely be a rust color there under bright light.
�· Look for typical wear patterns. In my limited experience the commercials show more wear on the front/rear gripstrap and less wear from a holster. I figure that compared to wartime models, they spent less time in a holster and more time in a rug.
�· Remove the upper assembly if possible and look inside. Are the innards blued or in the white? Keep in mind that years of crud, blood, sweat, tears, oils, etc. might make the inside look almost blued. If you canâ??t remove the top assembly at least put a mag in and lock the toggle back. Remove a grip panel if you can.
�· You said there is some pitting. If re-blued the blueing will be on top of the pitting. This is probably the easiest check. It is possible to fake this but in the price range you are looking at I wouldnâ??t expect sophisticated fakery.

I see you are in AZ. I am in the Phoenix area. I would be more than happy to accompany you to look at the pistol. I can bring a very similar 1923 Commercial for comparison.

Send me a PM if you want to meet.

Good Luck!


-- Dan

[Dwight Gruber]

Zeke,

The horizontal ("lazy") c/N, stock lug, and 5-digit serial number identifies this gun as a 1914 Commercial (I -really- wish you had provided the serial number).

DWM made these guns from 1914 to approximately the end of WWI in 1918. They are found in the commercial serial number range from approximately 70491 to approximately 76071. There are several different commercial variations salted into this range, so there are not nearly as many of these guns as the numbers suggest.

Bill Reupke (Auto Mag, 11/05) has suggested the existence of a sub-variation he has named 1916 Commercial, which has the relieved sear bar this pistol shows, characteristic of Lugers made after the middle of 1916 when the sear modification went into effect. Serial numbers of this variation begin about 74900 (Reupke, ibid.) It would be interesting to know if there is a small P stamped on the frame between the trigger guard and serial number; it is -crucial- to know the serial number itself.

This is a very uncommon and desirable Luger. The only mediating factor to its value (if the finish is original) is that not many collectors specialize in commercial Lugers, and so there is not much demand for the supply.

This gun offers the potential to help better understand the late-war commercial production of Lugers, and if you buy it I hope you will post high-quality, detailed photos of its characteristics.

--Dwight

[zeke1312]

It's not a reblued pistol. There are no other markings by the sn. I will try to get better pictures.

[zeke1312]

The pistol was sold before I could make an offer. Thanks to those folks who replied to my questions.

[Dwight Gruber]

Zeke,

Is there -any- chance you recorded the serial number, or can find it out from the seller?

--Dwight