Home rust bluing

[drbuster]

Would like to "touch up" or refinish some grip straps an my shooter luger. Would like to use the rust blue process since it is supposed to be more durable that chemical cold blues. Was there ever a "how to do it" piece posted on the Forum in the past? Does anybody know the "secret" that they could share with me and others?

[policeluger]

Request a copy of Brownell's latest catalog, #56 and they can be reached at 1-800-741-0015 and ask for a free info sheet on "Dicropan IM". Also very good free advice can be had at the same # and ask too talk too "Tech Support". Just finished two high grade O/U soft solder Belgium Brownings with the stuff, and one more too do, ....in fact I have an extra bottle, 1 pint, new in shipping carton, at dealer cost if you are interested and info sheet is always included. Please let me know soon or I'm returning it as I overstocked myself....you need a hot water bath, propane or like heat sourse, steel wool, rubber gloves and a few other small items. Find an old junk gun, worn out barrel or the like too first try it out on, it works!!!!...as all blueing projects it is always in hte polishing/prep of the metal...and I'll be here if you need help.

[Herb]

Herb, here is something you might try, I haven't tried it myself but what the heck it seems fairly easy if you can get all the ingredients.
http://yarchive.net/gun/bluing.html

[John Sabato]

Herb, This is a hot salt blue process... not rust blue as Herb Fisher requested...

It will certainly work for reblueing an entire assembly, but I wouldn't recommended this process for touch ups... it is a hot, smelly and caustic process...

[Thor]

I do permanent spot repair work on salt blued guns and rust blued guns. Please email at Thor340@aol.com if you need pricing or examples of my spot work. I DONT discuss my methods so please dont ask me how I do it.

[Herb]

John, you put a Luger in that stuff and I can gaurentee it's gonna rust, probally everything within 20 feet will too.

[Steve Richards]

I was not a chem major in college but you will not find me mucking around with a mixture of sodium nitrate and sodium hydroxide!

Thor undoubtably has spent a fair amount of money on proper safety equipment!

I will leave the salt bueing to him.

[drbuster]

Howard (policelugers), please check your private messages. Thank you one and all for the advice. Always great to get such expert and experienced help.

[Thor]

Here is an example of a salt blued Mauser. The rear frame ear is damaged. This is the only area that is repaired and the rest of the original bluing is retained. The repair is permanent.

Damaged Area-Salt Blued Mauser
Repaired Area-After picture

[policeluger]

OK gentleman, while this work is beautiful, (above Mauser), do we now consider this a bolstered gun? what providence will follow this gun, too let the next owner know it has been, for lack of better term, post 1945 re-worked. Most guns that have had a complete re-blue job are sometimes easy too spot, then again how many are too good of re-work too know for certain....so the question is...spot type re-work, do we still consider this 100% collection grade or a step down, and how do we know, and when we do, how do we (the forum) feel about touch up work???

[John Sabato]

ALL the guns that Thor reworks get his personal rework mark... no exceptions... Check out his website to see what it looks like...

[policeluger]

He did not state above, that a touch up job was also proof marked. It would be interesting too see the serial number of this gun and where the gun shows up after here. Remember we are talking about touch up work and how can we know a gun was bolstered, and how we feel about it. Don't get up set with capital letters, ALL....we're wanting too find out how so many re-work, bolstered guns get too the collectors marked...and are you sure that the owner of a minty gun (not necessarily the gun above) in need of a little fix up would be willing too have an after 1945 proof mark added too his gun?.

[Don H.]

We all hear from time to time about refinishing these Lugers and the opinions of it being right or wrong. I have a question, I own a 1967 Camaro with 34000 actual miles. The problem is it sat outside in the sun for 15 years and everything other than the metal is rotten so what should I do? If the car was in excellent condition and in no need of restoration it would be worth a lot of money. Cars and guns don't last forever. Is there any difference? I have spent almost $20,000 already on this Car and I'm sure everyone will be able to tell that it's been restored. I have seen many of Ted's refinishing's and I think they look better than original. I'm not trying to start a war here but is there any difference? Thanks Don

[drbuster]

Howard's points are well taken. The frame ear certainly looks better than before the "repair". I don't think anyone casually could tell it was done, especially by one so expert as Ted. He is true blue honest and I'm absolutely certain would inform any buyer of the restoration. But how can you or I be certain that that great looking piece being offered at a gun show is "as advertised"? There are so many "pot holes" to deal with these days, especially with Krieghoffs and Navies. Buy as many books as you can afford and read read read.

[policeluger]

Don H. your point is understood, and as always car restoration is compared too gun restoration, with the understanding that restoring a Chevy will never compare too a restored gun in how value is graded, but read again that this is about touch up work, a gun that can be bolstered/faked too some poor unsuspecting shumck (did I spell that right?)down the road. Not saying Ted is doing this for down the road profits, as he is informing this small group of what he did now for a customer. For the few of us at the last Reno gun show at Russ's table, remember the really uninformed guy who at the end on Saturday paid too dollar for a piece of ground up crap P08, and did it with out FFL.....he needed a home EPT test, and was unsupecting and uninformed as possible, now how about the beginner collector looking at this Mauser a few years down the road? he is going too get burned.....no war Don, we all want too preserve the hobby.

[Don H.]

I guess we all look at it differently. I personally purchased a Luger that I knew was touched up and I would rather have it the way it is now. If a person owns a luger that looks like crap why not restore it? I agree with Mr. Fisher If a person is a new collector do some homework and ask a lot of questions before you buy. I'm sure that the guy at the Reno show could of found someone for an opinion before he bought it, still that is sad. There is a lot of crooks out there and this forum is a good way for beginners to learn.

[AGE]

Don H.

My situation is sort of the opposite of yours. I own an '86 Lincoln Mark VII with 17,000 original miles that has always been stored indoors. It is absolutely perfect and absolutely original down to the belts, hoses, little production stickers, and even the tires. I doubt that any worn car could be restored to the condition of this unaltered original. How can any repaint really be as good as original and how can you ever replace all the tiny stuff like window motors and switches, etc? (Too bad Lincolns aren't worth what Camaros are to car nuts.)

On the otherhand I have a Thor restored 1915 DWM that really is in original condition (as far as I can tell). I am glad I am a shooter not a big buck gun collector.

[ratdog]

Policeluger, no, it's "schmuck"

[Michael Zeleny]

Firearm finish is polished, oxidized metal. What you see is what you get. The remaining colors, shapes, and dimensions tell the story in its entirety. No military sidearm with a million copies produced in series runs of thousands at a time can be expected to have collectible provenance in the same sense as an oil painting. But if you insist on regarding it the same way, I question the ethics of adding rework marks not correlated with the safety certification of firing proof loads. Should Mona Lisa be so marked after every cleaning?

[Edward Tinker]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Michael Zeleny:
<strong>But if you insist on regarding it the same way, I question the ethics of adding rework marks not correlated with the safety certification of firing proof loads. Should Mona Lisa be so marked after every cleaning?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Michael, I understand what you are saying and I wouldn't say I am a purest collector. But in the gun collecting fraternity, and specifically in the Luger field, re-worked (non-arsenal to me), re-blued, tampered with, and items changed on a Luger drops the value from a collector to a shooter status.

My 1966 Mustang has had repro parts put on it, and it's value is not as high as if I had used all OEM parts or it was pristine to start with. But when I got it, it had mis-matched door panels, replaced door, etc., so it was smart to re-paint, add correct parts etc. The value of my mustang went up, but not dramatically. Now, if you take a pristine, but 1950 era nickled WW2 Luger, worth maybe $400, then de-nickle it, reblue it, you have spent another several hundred to four hundred dollars, but have increased its value to maybe $500, so you have lost money.

So, to repeat myself, in the gun collecting, but specifically, the Luger collecting field, to reblue or boost a gun brings the value up very little.

Although a good cleaning, is not in the same category, most collectors I have talked to have no problem with cleaning a nasty pair of grips, scrubbing the bore, cleaning the metal, but any further, such as cold blue or touch up is considered boosting and unethical. So Ted or others adding a mark after it has been "fixed" appears ethical to me? He is trying to keep his restored Luger from being sold 10 years from now as a 98% gun, when it was a 90% with a problem.

Ed