Ammunition from WW2

Composite · 08-12-2010, 10:53 AM

My first post

I have some boxes of ammunition from ww2,many of them is not opened.
But can I use them in my 1940 mauser Luger?
Has anyone tried this ammunition in a Luger before?

guns3545 · 08-12-2010, 11:23 AM

In the spirit of the FORUM, no, you should absolutely not shoot this ammunition in a Luger or any other weapon.

This ammunition is extremely collectible. If you do not want to collect it, there are ample markets to sell it. You can then buy all the 9mm Parabellum you could ever use, barring participation in WWIII. It is extremely valuable.

However, you did ask a question and I will answer it. Yes, you can shoot it if the ammunition appears to be intact. Look for leakage, corrosion, bulging, etc. But also remember that ammunition from this era is corrosive and if you do not properly neutralize and clean your gun, damage will occur. If you over neutralize, frosting of the bore will occur.

John

PS: This begs the question whether you should shoot your 1940 code 42 Luger at all. I am assuming that it is not collector quality.

JR

mrerick · 08-12-2010, 11:47 AM

Hello Bjorn!

First, welcome to the forums. It's good you started here!

Echoing John's note, please do not shoot this ammunition. Please make it available to a collector, and buy new ammunition with the funds.

There is the possibility that the primer in this ammunition is corrosive as well. I know that US military ammunition didn't switch to non-corrosive primers until the mid 1950's, and European manufacturers didn't switch until even later. I don't KNOW that it is corrosive, but others on the forum with more expertise can followup on that.

Marc

Composite · 08-12-2010, 11:48 AM

Many thanks for your answer

Ok, I will not fire this ammunition with my Luger from what you say.
The Luger is all matching numbers and matching magazine.
But I was just curious if it works properly.

Best Regards
Bjorn

Vlim · 08-12-2010, 11:57 AM

This ammunition has some other issues as well:

Bullet type that can cause more wear to the barrel and that is outlawed on most firing ranges because of the steel core. (mE = Steel jacketed steel core. SE = Sintered Iron bullet).

Corrosion due to bad storage can take place on the INSIDE of the steel case. This may weaken the case (and spoil the load).

The German army limited the use of laquered steel cases in the P08. The P08 has a gas seal ring in the chamber that works great with brass cases, but can cause steel cases to jam. Late WW2 ammo crates carried a warning label for this.

Composite · 08-12-2010, 12:21 PM

Thanks for your warm welcome and answers!

This is my Luger with some of my ammunition :

Vlim · 08-12-2010, 12:51 PM

Very nice.

The fun part about German ammunition is the detailed information coded into the labels. They describe the manufacturers of all components.

''asb" for exampe. visible on some of your cartridge cases, is DWM itself

John Sabato · 08-12-2010, 12:54 PM

Definitely do not shoot this collector grade ammunition, and if you want to retain the value, do not break any more of the paper seals holding the boxes closed.

I don't know how many boxes of this ammo you have, but in the USA each box may be worth $20 or more to a collector depending on the condition.

This ammunition is definitely corrosive primed...

In What country are you located?

Composite · 08-12-2010, 01:14 PM

Thank you

I`m from Norway,and the ammunition come with the Germans under WW2.
I didn`t now they where corrosive primed.Thank you

Vlim: asb is DWM this was new for me.Thank you

John Sabato · 08-13-2010, 09:55 AM

You are not our only member from Norway! Do a search for "Steinar"... you may live near each other.

Composite · 08-13-2010, 10:08 AM

Thanks John.

cirelaw · 08-13-2010, 10:35 AM

I've bought this same ammo on Gunbroker and Auction arms. It is collector grade ammo and if you wish to sell some there is a section on the forum to do so. PS nice find!

Vlim · 08-13-2010, 11:12 AM

When based in Norway, keep an eye out for P08 parts that are marked with the Kongsberg arsenal marking. These have a collecting interest of their own!

The Kongsberg arsenal even offered their production services to Mauser in the 1960s when Mauser was researching the feasibility of renewed Parabellum production.

Sieger · 08-13-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Very nice.

The fun part about German ammunition is the detailed information coded into the labels. They describe the manufacturers of all components.

''asb" for exampe. visible on some of your cartridge cases, is DWM itself

Dear Vlim:

Would you know just what year or years the Germans stoped using corrosive primers in their 9mm Parabellum ammo?

Thanks!!

Sieger

Vlim · 08-13-2010, 02:15 PM

Hi,

As far as I know they never did. Only in the 1950s with the rebuilt German Bundesheer and GeCo / RWS as supplier the sintox / sinoxid primer was reintroduced. I'm pretty sure the DDR just kept using corrosive primers afterwards.

Commercial non-corrosive primer brands can be found well before 1945, however, anything labeled nicorro, sinoxid or sintox should be ok.

aldo35 · 08-14-2010, 09:24 PM

Hi,
I have several boxes of similar ammo and the wooden box, it seems to be lined with a zinc metal sheet, they came in. Mine were mfg in 1939 and the German markings indicate it was made for machine pistols. At time I purchased, 1966, the dealer told me they were surplused by the Finns. A catrtridge collector told me that the primers were corrosive and the black bullets were made of steel.
I would be interested in selling some of these to purchase non corrosive ammo.
Aldo35

Vlim · 08-15-2010, 06:21 AM

Hi Aldo,

There was no separate machine gun ammo, it was a 'one size fits all' solution, apart from the fact that the P08 didn't like steel cases. A fix was sought and found but never really implemented on a large scale.

The crate and the larger boxes have become even more collectible than the small 16-round boxes, while most buyers simply discarded and burned them.

The crates are indeed lined with Zinc. I've seen several versions: Some are soldered shut, others have a rubber gasket around the edges of the lid. Any labels on the crate itself?

jonnyc · 08-15-2010, 04:21 PM

Vlim, you surprised me!

"Bullet type that can cause more wear to the barrel and that is outlawed on most firing ranges because of the steel core. (mE = Steel jacketed steel core. SE = Sintered Iron bullet)."

A steel core doesn't effect barrel wear at all, and a steel jacket really doesn't hurt it either. The jacket coating material (tombak/GM) contacts the barrel, not bare steel. In addition, SE bullets are solid bullets of soft steel powder pressed together, and there is not steel core per se.

Vlim · 08-15-2010, 04:35 PM

Jonny,

SE is indeed sintered iron and will wear the barrel down faster than you can spell 'wear'.

Steel jacketed ammo WILL also cause more wear to steel barrels than normal brass jacketed, or solid lead ammo. The stuff is prohibited on most ranges (including ours) because of the steel core and the damage it can do to range installations. Not because of barrel wear, as the steel core is embedded in lead within the steel jacket.

But all that aside, the message is: The stuff is crap and should not be shot in a P08

jonnyc · 08-15-2010, 09:12 PM

Right, half apology. I read yours quick and didn't see the range/core transition. I still wouldn't be concerned at all with steel jackets with a GM/tombac sheathing.

08-12-2010, 10:53 AM	#1
Composite User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 15 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ammunition from WW2 My first post I have some boxes of ammunition from ww2,many of them is not opened. But can I use them in my 1940 mauser Luger? Has anyone tried this ammunition in a Luger before? Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2010, 11:23 AM	#2
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 435 Thanks: 649 Thanked 490 Times in 216 Posts	In the spirit of the FORUM, no, you should absolutely not shoot this ammunition in a Luger or any other weapon. This ammunition is extremely collectible. If you do not want to collect it, there are ample markets to sell it. You can then buy all the 9mm Parabellum you could ever use, barring participation in WWIII. It is extremely valuable. However, you did ask a question and I will answer it. Yes, you can shoot it if the ammunition appears to be intact. Look for leakage, corrosion, bulging, etc. But also remember that ammunition from this era is corrosive and if you do not properly neutralize and clean your gun, damage will occur. If you over neutralize, frosting of the bore will occur. John PS: This begs the question whether you should shoot your 1940 code 42 Luger at all. I am assuming that it is not collector quality. JR Last edited by guns3545; 08-12-2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason: add info

08-12-2010, 11:47 AM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hello Bjorn! First, welcome to the forums. It's good you started here! Echoing John's note, please do not shoot this ammunition. Please make it available to a collector, and buy new ammunition with the funds. There is the possibility that the primer in this ammunition is corrosive as well. I know that US military ammunition didn't switch to non-corrosive primers until the mid 1950's, and European manufacturers didn't switch until even later. I don't KNOW that it is corrosive, but others on the forum with more expertise can followup on that. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-12-2010, 12:21 PM	#6
Composite User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 15 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your warm welcome and answers! This is my Luger with some of my ammunition : Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Composite; 08-18-2010 at 07:23 AM.

08-12-2010, 12:54 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Definitely do not shoot this collector grade ammunition, and if you want to retain the value, do not break any more of the paper seals holding the boxes closed. I don't know how many boxes of this ammo you have, but in the USA *each box may be worth $20 or more* to a collector depending on the condition. This ammunition is definitely corrosive primed... In What country are you located? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-12-2010, 11:48 AM	#4
Composite User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 15 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many thanks for your answer Ok, I will not fire this ammunition with my Luger from what you say. The Luger is all matching numbers and matching magazine. But I was just curious if it works properly. Best Regards Bjorn

08-12-2010, 11:57 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	This ammunition has some other issues as well: Bullet type that can cause more wear to the barrel and that is outlawed on most firing ranges because of the steel core. (mE = Steel jacketed steel core. SE = Sintered Iron bullet). Corrosion due to bad storage can take place on the INSIDE of the steel case. This may weaken the case (and spoil the load). The German army limited the use of laquered steel cases in the P08. The P08 has a gas seal ring in the chamber that works great with brass cases, but can cause steel cases to jam. Late WW2 ammo crates carried a warning label for this.

08-12-2010, 12:51 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	Very nice. The fun part about German ammunition is the detailed information coded into the labels. They describe the manufacturers of all components. ''asb" for exampe. visible on some of your cartridge cases, is DWM itself

08-12-2010, 01:14 PM	#9
Composite User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 15 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you I`m from Norway,and the ammunition come with the Germans under WW2. I didn`t now they where corrosive primed.Thank you Vlim: asb is DWM this was new for me.Thank you

08-13-2010, 09:55 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	You are not our only member from Norway! Do a search for "Steinar"... you may live near each other. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-13-2010, 10:08 AM	#11
Composite User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 15 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks John.

08-13-2010, 10:35 AM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I've bought this same ammo on Gunbroker and Auction arms. It is collector grade ammo and if you wish to sell some there is a section on the forum to do so. PS nice find!

08-13-2010, 11:12 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	When based in Norway, keep an eye out for P08 parts that are marked with the Kongsberg arsenal marking. These have a collecting interest of their own! The Kongsberg arsenal even offered their production services to Mauser in the 1960s when Mauser was researching the feasibility of renewed Parabellum production.

08-13-2010, 02:15 PM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	Hi, As far as I know they never did. Only in the 1950s with the rebuilt German Bundesheer and GeCo / RWS as supplier the sintox / sinoxid primer was reintroduced. I'm pretty sure the DDR just kept using corrosive primers afterwards. Commercial non-corrosive primer brands can be found well before 1945, however, anything labeled nicorro, sinoxid or sintox should be ok.

08-14-2010, 09:24 PM	#16
aldo35 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northern GA Posts: 322 Thanks: 2,164 Thanked 138 Times in 70 Posts	Hi, I have several boxes of similar ammo and the wooden box, it seems to be lined with a zinc metal sheet, they came in. Mine were mfg in 1939 and the German markings indicate it was made for machine pistols. At time I purchased, 1966, the dealer told me they were surplused by the Finns. A catrtridge collector told me that the primers were corrosive and the black bullets were made of steel. I would be interested in selling some of these to purchase non corrosive ammo. Aldo35

08-15-2010, 06:21 AM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	Hi Aldo, There was no separate machine gun ammo, it was a 'one size fits all' solution, apart from the fact that the P08 didn't like steel cases. A fix was sought and found but never really implemented on a large scale. The crate and the larger boxes have become even more collectible than the small 16-round boxes, while most buyers simply discarded and burned them. The crates are indeed lined with Zinc. I've seen several versions: Some are soldered shut, others have a rubber gasket around the edges of the lid. Any labels on the crate itself?

08-15-2010, 04:21 PM	#18
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Vlim, you surprised me! "Bullet type that can cause more wear to the barrel and that is outlawed on most firing ranges because of the steel core. (mE = Steel jacketed steel core. SE = Sintered Iron bullet)." A steel core doesn't effect barrel wear at all, and a steel jacket really doesn't hurt it either. The jacket coating material (tombak/GM) contacts the barrel, not bare steel. In addition, SE bullets are solid bullets of soft steel powder pressed together, and there is not steel core per se.

08-15-2010, 04:35 PM	#19
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,042 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,193 Posts	Jonny, SE is indeed sintered iron and will wear the barrel down faster than you can spell 'wear'. Steel jacketed ammo WILL also cause more wear to steel barrels than normal brass jacketed, or solid lead ammo. The stuff is prohibited on most ranges (including ours) because of the steel core and the damage it can do to range installations. Not because of barrel wear, as the steel core is embedded in lead within the steel jacket. But all that aside, the message is: The stuff is crap and should not be shot in a P08

08-15-2010, 09:12 PM	#20
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Right, half apology. I read yours quick and didn't see the range/core transition. I still wouldn't be concerned at all with steel jackets with a GM/tombac sheathing.