Stoeger 9mm SS Luger? Anybody?

PAINTBALL GUY 3 · 07-08-2009, 08:50 PM

Hello all, My first post here. Hope y'all are a good group.

I recently found out about these stainless steel Lugers and thay look AWSOME!!!!! I really like the look of the 6" Navy Model. But I have read mixed things about them. Some say that thay shoot as good as thay look, others say there Jam-o-matics. Some say thay are very well made and others say gut's are as soft as gum.

So I'm confused.

So what do you guys have to say about them? I would ask if there worth it money but thats up to me isn't it.

Thank you.

Ice · 07-09-2009, 05:20 AM

First, welcome to the forum. The stainless Lugers are indeed pretty but it seems that quality control was hit or miss. I have one but only test fired it. While mine works perfectly I don't shoot it much because its near impossible to find replacement stainless parts if something breaks. The concensus among collectors/shooters seems to be that if you want a Luger to shoot then get a genuine German model. You can generally find a nice one for about the price of the stainless; even less if you buy a mismatched shooter. Then you can have all the fun shooting that you want knowing that spare parts are available for when something breaks.

Charlie

Lugerdoc · 07-09-2009, 09:32 AM

Amen, brother. TH

Vlim · 07-09-2009, 09:53 AM

Add to that the general consensus that the steel types used to make the stainless steel lugers are too soft and this in turn leads to problems.

I remember examining a 6"version last year. We couldn't even dismantle it properly as the parts were so poorly fitted that everything was stuck.

The design certainly has potential, but it needs quite a bit of work in the QA department.

jeffs · 07-14-2009, 09:52 PM

Mine is a later Stoeger 4". It works just fine.

Jeff

Drachenstein · 07-14-2009, 11:56 PM

I have a late Stoeger Navy (6 in) that works just fine. I have no problem with disassembly or assembly. Very balanced and accurate. They are though a bit thicker and not quite so ergonomic as a classic Luger, but I do have small hands.
AIMCO actually made both the Stoeger and the Mitchell. There was a problem with the early Mitchell models with the metallurgy. They were too soft and would eventually beat themselves to death. The problem was supposed to have been corrected while still under the Mitchell name. You can still get replacement parts through Aimco but they are expensive. Example the magazines are not interchangeable with other lugers and will normally cost about $65 ea.

sheepherder · 07-15-2009, 06:53 AM

One thing about SS pistols that I've found over the years is that you need a lubricant made to keep the metal parts from galling ("sticking"). The #1 lubricant is military developed and issued LSA [Lubricant, Small Arms]. It was initially developed for the M16, which uses steel sliding on aluminum. Any gun show will have bottles of it; white bottles seem to work better than the brown bottles, but that may just be my subjective determination.

Lugerdoc · 07-15-2009, 10:49 AM

When I worked in a gun shop years ago, we used to recommend a grease lub for stainless guns (which was recommend for most AMT products including the Automag) call STOS (Slicker than Owl ----). TH

PAINTBALL GUY 3 · 07-20-2009, 03:35 PM

Thank you guy's. Yee be very helpful.

So If I go looking one, I should look for a Stoeger just to be safe?

Are the 6" model's somewhat easy to come across?

4thUSMC · 10-15-2009, 08:47 PM

I've been looking for a 6" model for over a year now and haven't seen one. I missed a chance to buy one at a shop here in town for $600 but someone beat me to it.

Drachenstein · 10-16-2009, 11:15 PM

You should have jumped, they average between $750 - $950 right now. I did the same thing with a elderly lady wanting to sell a P38 rig (complete) for $400.00, I didn't jump

, the second person she offered it to did.

Steve Richards · 10-23-2009, 01:46 AM

I have both a 9mm and a .30cal. They were made after the split with Stoeger. Both of them work just fine. The 9mm likes S&B ammo. That is what the factjory uses for its testing. I wrote to them and asked. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find now.

I have some privately loaded .30 ammo that works just fine. The few Fiochi that I shot did not cycle the action but it also did not cycle my 1970's era Mauser either.

Some people have had poor results but both of mine have been good guns if fed the correct ammo.

Steve

alvin · 10-23-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

I remember examining a 6"version last year. We couldn't even dismantle it properly as the parts were so poorly fitted that everything was stuck.

The design certainly has potential, but it needs quite a bit of work in the QA department.

Isn't this thing made by CNC, and supposed to be very precisely made?

The only confirmed CNC gun that I played in the past was a newly made Auto Ordnance M1 carbine that I bought NIB. Magazine column article said it's made from "state-of-the-art" manufacturing facilities in Worcester, Massachusetts.

Sounds good. However, that M1 was my nightmare. It jams like crazy in range, and it's even less accurate than a much smaller Mauser pistol made 70 years ago at 50 or 100 yards. Since then, I don't believe "state-of-the-art" anymore.

sheepherder · 10-23-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Isn't this thing made by CNC, and supposed to be very precisely made?...Since then, I don't believe "state-of-the-art" anymore.

"Garbage in...garbage out"...

alvin · 10-23-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

"Garbage in...garbage out"...

What could be wrong with the input steel?

I would assume that the data feeding into the computer is correct, their multi-million-dollar CNC equipments are great, and the operators (if any) are professionals.

But why is the product quality low? and what's human being's factor in this process?

Return to NIB Stainless Luger. If parts do not even fit, sounds like a parts gun, where did the precision lost in the manufacturing process.... cutting and milling was controlled by computer?

sheepherder · 10-23-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

What could be wrong with the input steel?

I would assume that the data feeding into the computer is correct, their multi-million-dollar CNC equipments are great, and the operators (if any) are professionals.

But why is the product quality low? and what's human being's factor in this process?

The person who coded the program may have used excessive clearances (different from tolerances)...The SS may have been of low quality or just too "soft" a grade...Stainless is subject to "galling" no matter what grade; it requires good lubrication...(I use LSA on all my SS pistols; others have their own preferred lubes)...

Operator/coder can specify spindle speed too fast (or too slow); feed rate may be too high (or too low); depth of cut may be...yup, you guessed it...too much or too little...

It's not all that much different from manually machining the piece...You just approach it differently...and you try out a new program on inexpensive workpieces; not expensive forgings (or in the case of the SS Lugers, investment castings, IIRC)...

It's not something you can learn in a day...a good machinist learns his trade over a lifetime...and is still learning...

I wish I was a good machinist...I'm running out of time...

Vlim · 10-23-2009, 06:28 PM

And also look at the hardening process. The 'real' lugers had parts separately treated to create harder surfaces. It seems that this treatment was not of insufficiently done on the Stainless ones. This, in combination with not-too-tight tolerances and poor overall finishing, should account for most of the problems.

Most of those problems are rectifyable and I guess most were. But I must say that we have heard too much evidence of quality issues to simply discard them as 'internet gossip'.

alvin · 10-24-2009, 07:48 AM

Thanks guys.

Toothache bothered me last night. Feel much better now. There might be a cost issue limiting the quality of modern reproduction of C&R guns. There are high quality postwar reproduction. The postwar Krieghoff listed on Simpson must be great, but look at that price tag!

===

[Edit] I play a little bit amateur wood work, but not a machinist. Regarding Postie's "clearances (different from tolerances)", I assume clearances being intentional extra space in design, and tolerance being allowed unintentional but unavoidable inaccuracy in manufacturing. If my guess is wrong, please let me know.

Drachenstein · 10-28-2009, 08:36 AM

I'll chime in once again, I've had no problems with my Stoeger,,,,,,,,,,,,, except when I shot 124 gr magtechs. If fact, nothing I had liked the magtechs,,,,,still have two boxes of them,,,,,,they're worthless. Beside jamming, they actually damaged a P38, I won't use them.

Yea, Yea, Yea,,,,,,everything after DWM is a copy

07-09-2009, 09:32 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Amen, brother. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-15-2009, 10:49 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	When I worked in a gun shop years ago, we used to recommend a grease lub for stainless guns (which was recommend for most AMT products including the Automag) call STOS (Slicker than Owl ----). TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-16-2009, 11:15 PM	#11
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	You should have jumped, they average between $750 - $950 right now. I did the same thing with a elderly lady wanting to sell a P38 rig (complete) for $400.00, I didn't jump, the second person she offered it to did.

07-08-2009, 08:50 PM	#1
PAINTBALL GUY 3 New User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stoeger 9mm SS Luger? Anybody? Hello all, My first post here. Hope y'all are a good group. I recently found out about these stainless steel Lugers and thay look AWSOME!!!!! I really like the look of the 6" Navy Model. But I have read mixed things about them. Some say that thay shoot as good as thay look, others say there Jam-o-matics. Some say thay are very well made and others say gut's are as soft as gum. So I'm confused. So what do you guys have to say about them? I would ask if there worth it money but thats up to me isn't it. Thank you.

07-09-2009, 05:20 AM	#2
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	First, welcome to the forum. The stainless Lugers are indeed pretty but it seems that quality control was hit or miss. I have one but only test fired it. While mine works perfectly I don't shoot it much because its near impossible to find replacement stainless parts if something breaks. The concensus among collectors/shooters seems to be that if you want a Luger to shoot then get a genuine German model. You can generally find a nice one for about the price of the stainless; even less if you buy a mismatched shooter. Then you can have all the fun shooting that you want knowing that spare parts are available for when something breaks. Charlie

07-09-2009, 09:53 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Add to that the general consensus that the steel types used to make the stainless steel lugers are too soft and this in turn leads to problems. I remember examining a 6"version last year. We couldn't even dismantle it properly as the parts were so poorly fitted that everything was stuck. The design certainly has potential, but it needs quite a bit of work in the QA department.

07-14-2009, 09:52 PM	#5
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mine is a later Stoeger 4". It works just fine. Jeff

07-14-2009, 11:56 PM	#6
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have a late Stoeger Navy (6 in) that works just fine. I have no problem with disassembly or assembly. Very balanced and accurate. They are though a bit thicker and not quite so ergonomic as a classic Luger, but I do have small hands. AIMCO actually made both the Stoeger and the Mitchell. There was a problem with the early Mitchell models with the metallurgy. They were too soft and would eventually beat themselves to death. The problem was supposed to have been corrected while still under the Mitchell name. You can still get replacement parts through Aimco but they are expensive. Example the magazines are not interchangeable with other lugers and will normally cost about $65 ea.

07-15-2009, 06:53 AM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	One thing about SS pistols that I've found over the years is that you need a lubricant made to keep the metal parts from galling ("sticking"). The #1 lubricant is military developed and issued LSA [Lubricant, Small Arms]. It was initially developed for the M16, which uses steel sliding on aluminum. Any gun show will have bottles of it; white bottles seem to work better than the brown bottles, but that may just be my subjective determination.

07-20-2009, 03:35 PM	#9
PAINTBALL GUY 3 New User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you guy's. Yee be very helpful. So If I go looking one, I should look for a Stoeger just to be safe? Are the 6" model's somewhat easy to come across?

10-15-2009, 08:47 PM	#10
4thUSMC User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've been looking for a 6" model for over a year now and haven't seen one. I missed a chance to buy one at a shop here in town for $600 but someone beat me to it.

10-23-2009, 01:46 AM	#12
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have both a 9mm and a .30cal. They were made after the split with Stoeger. Both of them work just fine. The 9mm likes S&B ammo. That is what the factjory uses for its testing. I wrote to them and asked. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find now. I have some privately loaded .30 ammo that works just fine. The few Fiochi that I shot did not cycle the action but it also did not cycle my 1970's era Mauser either. Some people have had poor results but both of mine have been good guns if fed the correct ammo. Steve

10-23-2009, 06:28 PM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	And also look at the hardening process. The 'real' lugers had parts separately treated to create harder surfaces. It seems that this treatment was not of insufficiently done on the Stainless ones. This, in combination with not-too-tight tolerances and poor overall finishing, should account for most of the problems. Most of those problems are rectifyable and I guess most were. But I must say that we have heard too much evidence of quality issues to simply discard them as 'internet gossip'.

10-24-2009, 07:48 AM	#18
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks guys. Toothache bothered me last night. Feel much better now. There might be a cost issue limiting the quality of modern reproduction of C&R guns. There are high quality postwar reproduction. The postwar Krieghoff listed on Simpson must be great, but look at that price tag! === [Edit] I play a little bit amateur wood work, but not a machinist. Regarding Postie's "clearances (different from tolerances)", I assume clearances being intentional extra space in design, and tolerance being allowed unintentional but unavoidable inaccuracy in manufacturing. If my guess is wrong, please let me know.

10-28-2009, 08:36 AM	#19
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'll chime in once again, I've had no problems with my Stoeger,,,,,,,,,,,,, except when I shot 124 gr magtechs. If fact, nothing I had liked the magtechs,,,,,still have two boxes of them,,,,,,they're worthless. Beside jamming, they actually damaged a P38, I won't use them. Yea, Yea, Yea,,,,,,everything after DWM is a copy