Webleys

Rod WMG · 02-24-2006, 06:52 PM

Not long ago, I asked for a .455 Webley for sale here and on a few other sites. Surprisingly to me I got no response here or on Jan's site since I figured someone here would collect such arms.

At any rate I got an offer (I accepted) to sell two from the same guy, one a 90 to 95% gun and the other more "average. This is my first experience with these guns, but the design is so fine I'm shocked they aren't more popular. From the holster guides to the top break with auto ejection, it's a very functional concept.

I've read the old Detonics company had a prototype top break in the works capable of withstanding magnum pressures. I'd like to have had one of those.

lundbaek · 02-24-2006, 07:26 PM

I am favourably impressed with the Webley .455 from an engineering standpoint. Maybe because we lived in England for a time and I saw more of them at gunshows. I think they can be reworked to accomodate the .45 ACP with 1/2 moon clips. I can only surmise that their lack of popularity is due to their less than sleek appearance, even compared to the Colt and S&W 1917s, ammo limitations, and American's unfamiliarity with their use and history.

Edward Tinker · 02-24-2006, 07:34 PM

I have a webley in 45 ACP, I purposely bought 45 auto rim and reloaded for it and it shot great.

I really like it, but don't have a non-modified one, or one ofr sale and thus did not comment Rod.

I have seen a couple of sale on assorted places on the web though...

Ed

SteveM · 02-24-2006, 07:54 PM

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/pr6054.htm

Rod WMG · 02-25-2006, 12:03 AM

lundbaek, there is nothing elegant about these, but I honestly don't think they compare too unfavorably to my Smith N frames, except for the finish. They are, as you indicate, engineering marvels.

Ed, I wanted mine uncut if possible. Not because I have anything against the modified ones per se, just that I wanted originals. I love the Auto Rim and my Smith ACP/AR is supremely accurate.

Steve, thanks for the link. That is the most expensive one I've seen. I believe one of those I bought looks better.

trigger643 · 02-25-2006, 08:33 AM

I owned a webley in .455 several years ago and thought very highly of it. The only downside is feeding. Ammo was always an issue and when Northridge Arms ran out I sold mine because I couldn't feed it. As recently as last winter I came across a box of .455 at Gunsmoke Arms here in Denver and nearly bought it out of habit. Ed, I believe many of these were brought in by Navy Arms and converted to .45 ACP in the 80's. Several other importers as I recall also converted them to .45 ACP. -- certainly not a bad thing as .455 is almost impossible to find anymore.

Stu · 02-25-2006, 09:10 AM

I've just bought one blind and I'm waiting to see if it's cut.
Could someone tell me if the original cylinder is rebated for the rim ? I'm assuming the cut for 45acp will be pretty obvious once I get it.

A number of sites list the Fiocchi 455; not cheap but I believe it is available.

Stu

Rod WMG · 02-26-2006, 01:58 AM

Graf and Sons has a run of the .455 ammo, Hornady auspices, I think, as well as the much more expensive Fiocchi brand. I'm getting ready to prepare an order for some of theirs and components.

I could almost cry when I think of what I could have bought these and Lugers for 30 years ago.

Rod WMG · 02-26-2006, 09:00 PM

The good ole days aren't always so good. I haven't seen the K31's advertised by our Big 5. I'll have to keep my eyes open.

lundbaek · 02-26-2006, 11:45 PM

I saw a Webley in .455 at the Crossroads of the West gun show in Phoenix. The owner told me he paid $1100 for it, and it was far more worn than the one shown above. I realize the dollar has fallen in value to about a tenth of what it was worth 50 years ago, when Webleys first started coming into the country, but I guess if one can find a buyer, most any gun would be one of the best hedges against inflation / dollar devaluation I know of.

Rod WMG · 02-27-2006, 09:27 PM

Man, some of those prices make my nicer one worth a lot of moolah!

Stu · 03-08-2006, 07:14 PM

Quick update; got the blind buy and it turns out to be uncut with matching numbers. Very little finish, a patch or two of very very fine pitting and a good bore. It looks as though it hasn't been touched in quite a few years and may clean up nicely. Now to find some 455 !

I hope this will be as much fun to shoot as my mk IV.

Ron Smith · 03-08-2006, 09:44 PM

The owner of the shop I work in came out of his vault today and handed me a Mark IV ? with 3" barrel. The blue has been stripped and it has been converted to take 45 ACP. Very tight and in good working order. He asked what I thought it was worth. I told him that I didn't know , but would like to have. He said that if we can come together on a price he would sell it to me.

Waiting to see....

Ron

Stu · 03-09-2006, 08:26 PM

Hi Ron, sounds like a very fun shooter. I wonder how rare the 3" is ? I confess to being a fan of short barrels; no good reason, but in the larger calibers you usally get some pretty impressive burn outside the barrel

Please let me know the outcome of your negatiation and a pic would be great.

Stu

Ron Smith · 03-09-2006, 09:53 PM

Hi Stu,

I looked at it again today. It's actually a 4" barrel. And it's a Mark 1 or first variation. I didn't get a chance to look at very long yesterday. Kind of blew it all the way around.

The bore shows slight wear , but no frost or pits and rifling is strong, bright and shiney. Left grip has repaired crack through the escutcheon hole.

All blue has been stripped. Looks as if someone was preping it to refinish it and didn't.

Does anyone have any thoughts on a fair value. All things considered?

I don't have any idea of it's value.

I loaded it with empty .45 auto-rim cases. It functions perfectly.

Ron

Stu · 03-10-2006, 06:04 PM

Hi Ron. Nice little gun. As to value, tough one, cut for ACP and stripped leaves little collector value, but it looks like a heck of a fun shooter. I'd put $225 on the table tomorrow and would be happy; I also wouldn't be surprised to see it resting on the shelf with $425~ on the tag if the seller was an optimist !

I think it's one of those guns that if you find the one person who really wants it they'll pay some money, otherwise it'll gather dust on the shelf. Please post any updates,

All the best, Stu

Ron Smith · 03-10-2006, 09:36 PM

Hi Stu,
I only want it for a shooter. It locks up like it was new. I was thinking that I would offer him $275 and go from there. He's out of town until Tuesday, so I'll drop the offer then.

Thanks, I appreciate the ball park estimates. That gives me a starting point.

Ron

Stu · 03-11-2006, 09:48 AM

I'd pay $275 without blinking, (if I had it

. Looks to be an excellent shooter, but I'm a sucker for anything a bit different !

Let us know if he goes for it...

Stu

pipeman45 · 03-11-2006, 10:01 AM

Ron finds all the nice toys. It ain't fair!

Good luck on it and be sure to tell us how it shoots.

Ron Smith · 03-11-2006, 10:09 AM

Stu,
Me too. I love odd and unique guns. This just feels neat in your hand. I am going to start rust bluing. This will be a good one to start with. If it doesn't come out perfect. It will still be a great shooter and about anything would be an improvement.

Since I work for Joe and we are very good friends, I have an unlimited lay-a-way plan. Money's no object, until he wants a payment.

Ron

02-24-2006, 06:52 PM	#1
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Webleys Not long ago, I asked for a .455 Webley for sale here and on a few other sites. Surprisingly to me I got no response here or on Jan's site since I figured someone here would collect such arms. At any rate I got an offer (I accepted) to sell two from the same guy, one a 90 to 95% gun and the other more "average. This is my first experience with these guns, but the design is so fine I'm shocked they aren't more popular. From the holster guides to the top break with auto ejection, it's a very functional concept. I've read the old Detonics company had a prototype top break in the works capable of withstanding magnum pressures. I'd like to have had one of those.

02-24-2006, 07:34 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	I have a webley in 45 ACP, I purposely bought 45 auto rim and reloaded for it and it shot great. I really like it, but don't have a non-modified one, or one ofr sale and thus did not comment Rod. I have seen a couple of sale on assorted places on the web though... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-25-2006, 08:33 AM	#6
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I owned a webley in .455 several years ago and thought very highly of it. The only downside is feeding. Ammo was always an issue and when Northridge Arms ran out I sold mine because I couldn't feed it. As recently as last winter I came across a box of .455 at Gunsmoke Arms here in Denver and nearly bought it out of habit. Ed, I believe many of these were brought in by Navy Arms and converted to .45 ACP in the 80's. Several other importers as I recall also converted them to .45 ACP. -- certainly not a bad thing as .455 is almost impossible to find anymore. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

03-08-2006, 09:44 PM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The owner of the shop I work in came out of his vault today and handed me a Mark IV ? with 3" barrel. The blue has been stripped and it has been converted to take 45 ACP. Very tight and in good working order. He asked what I thought it was worth. I told him that I didn't know , but would like to have. He said that if we can come together on a price he would sell it to me. Waiting to see.... Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-09-2006, 09:53 PM	#15
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Stu, I looked at it again today. It's actually a 4" barrel. And it's a Mark 1 or first variation. I didn't get a chance to look at very long yesterday. Kind of blew it all the way around. The bore shows slight wear , but no frost or pits and rifling is strong, bright and shiney. Left grip has repaired crack through the escutcheon hole. All blue has been stripped. Looks as if someone was preping it to refinish it and didn't. Does anyone have any thoughts on a fair value. All things considered? I don't have any idea of it's value. I loaded it with empty .45 auto-rim cases. It functions perfectly. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-24-2006, 07:26 PM	#2
lundbaek User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am favourably impressed with the Webley .455 from an engineering standpoint. Maybe because we lived in England for a time and I saw more of them at gunshows. I think they can be reworked to accomodate the .45 ACP with 1/2 moon clips. I can only surmise that their lack of popularity is due to their less than sleek appearance, even compared to the Colt and S&W 1917s, ammo limitations, and American's unfamiliarity with their use and history.

02-24-2006, 07:54 PM	#4
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/pr6054.htm

02-25-2006, 12:03 AM	#5
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	lundbaek, there is nothing elegant about these, but I honestly don't think they compare too unfavorably to my Smith N frames, except for the finish. They are, as you indicate, engineering marvels. Ed, I wanted mine uncut if possible. Not because I have anything against the modified ones per se, just that I wanted originals. I love the Auto Rim and my Smith ACP/AR is supremely accurate. Steve, thanks for the link. That is the most expensive one I've seen. I believe one of those I bought looks better.

02-25-2006, 09:10 AM	#7
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	I've just bought one blind and I'm waiting to see if it's cut. Could someone tell me if the original cylinder is rebated for the rim ? I'm assuming the cut for 45acp will be pretty obvious once I get it. A number of sites list the Fiocchi 455; not cheap but I believe it is available. Stu

02-26-2006, 01:58 AM	#8
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Graf and Sons has a run of the .455 ammo, Hornady auspices, I think, as well as the much more expensive Fiocchi brand. I'm getting ready to prepare an order for some of theirs and components. I could almost cry when I think of what I could have bought these and Lugers for 30 years ago.

02-26-2006, 09:00 PM	#9
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The good ole days aren't always so good. I haven't seen the K31's advertised by our Big 5. I'll have to keep my eyes open.

02-26-2006, 11:45 PM	#10
lundbaek User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I saw a Webley in .455 at the Crossroads of the West gun show in Phoenix. The owner told me he paid $1100 for it, and it was far more worn than the one shown above. I realize the dollar has fallen in value to about a tenth of what it was worth 50 years ago, when Webleys first started coming into the country, but I guess if one can find a buyer, most any gun would be one of the best hedges against inflation / dollar devaluation I know of.

02-27-2006, 09:27 PM	#11
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Man, some of those prices make my nicer one worth a lot of moolah!

03-08-2006, 07:14 PM	#12
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Quick update; got the blind buy and it turns out to be uncut with matching numbers. Very little finish, a patch or two of very very fine pitting and a good bore. It looks as though it hasn't been touched in quite a few years and may clean up nicely. Now to find some 455 ! I hope this will be as much fun to shoot as my mk IV.

03-09-2006, 08:26 PM	#14
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Ron, sounds like a very fun shooter. I wonder how rare the 3" is ? I confess to being a fan of short barrels; no good reason, but in the larger calibers you usally get some pretty impressive burn outside the barrel Please let me know the outcome of your negatiation and a pic would be great. Stu

03-10-2006, 06:04 PM	#16
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Ron. Nice little gun. As to value, tough one, cut for ACP and stripped leaves little collector value, but it looks like a heck of a fun shooter. I'd put $225 on the table tomorrow and would be happy; I also wouldn't be surprised to see it resting on the shelf with $425~ on the tag if the seller was an optimist ! I think it's one of those guns that if you find the one person who really wants it they'll pay some money, otherwise it'll gather dust on the shelf. Please post any updates, All the best, Stu

03-10-2006, 09:36 PM	#17
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Stu, I only want it for a shooter. It locks up like it was new. I was thinking that I would offer him $275 and go from there. He's out of town until Tuesday, so I'll drop the offer then. Thanks, I appreciate the ball park estimates. That gives me a starting point. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-11-2006, 09:48 AM	#18
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	I'd pay $275 without blinking, (if I had it . Looks to be an excellent shooter, but I'm a sucker for anything a bit different ! Let us know if he goes for it... Stu

03-11-2006, 10:01 AM	#19
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron finds all the nice toys. It ain't fair! Good luck on it and be sure to tell us how it shoots. __________________ Dave

03-11-2006, 10:09 AM	#20
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Stu, Me too. I love odd and unique guns. This just feels neat in your hand. I am going to start rust bluing. This will be a good one to start with. If it doesn't come out perfect. It will still be a great shooter and about anything would be an improvement. Since I work for Joe and we are very good friends, I have an unlimited lay-a-way plan. Money's no object, until he wants a payment. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...