Interesting Luger on Gun Broker

[Kyrie]

Looky here:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/769324647

Seller describes it as "Unusual 1933 Mauser Police Luger Rig in 9mm". Could have been.

What I think I'm seeing is an unusual East German re-build. Pay especial attention serial numbers placement and size of font. Also look closely at holster marking.

IMO, this is a gun with more than one story to tell.

Kyrie

[RShaw]

Interesting for sure...

Intriguing- the sn 81 on the bottom of the takedown lever. Isn't this number normally stamped on the side of the takedown lever just in forward of the knurled knob?

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by RShaw

Interesting for sure...

Intriguing- the sn 81 on the bottom of the takedown lever. Isn't this number normally stamped on the side of the takedown lever just in forward of the knurled knob?

Yes sir, that is one of the things that caught my attention. I'd expect, on a purely military contract Luger, to see the small parts numbered in the military manner (i.e. in plain sight) thusly:



OTOH, on a commercial gun, including a 1930s police Luger, I'd expect to see the small parts numbered in the commercial pattern (i.e. number largely concealed on the edges of exposed small parts) thusly:



The Luger on Gun Broker is a mix of military/commercial numbering styles. IME a matching numbered gun with that kind mixed numbering styles suggests a DDR Luger.

[Edward Tinker]

The above is a different gun than the link

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

The above is a different gun than the link

Correct.

[DonVoigt]

Yes, different- to show the difference in military numbering and the mixed up numbering of the link in the OP.

Unfortunately this won't make much sense when the pictures from the OP go away with the auction in a week or three.

[Edward Tinker]

sorry, very confusing

all the DDR I have seen have been numbered in the military style - even a later piece, it is then force matched

[RShaw]

Fascinating......

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

sorry, very confusing

all the DDR I have seen have been numbered in the military style - even a later piece, it is then force matched

Not a problem, Ed.

The DDR Lugers are a complicated story. Back in the days (and even before) I was an 01 FFL I saw several waves of Lugers come into the country, with at least three waves of DDR rebuilt/refurbished Lugers.

The first batch of DDR guns that I recall began coming in to the USA in the late 1950s, early 1960s. If memory serves (and it may not - I'm getting old) these waves of these Lugers were small numbers of guns, say twenty-five to fifty gun batches in each wave, maybe once or twice a year. These Lugers were mostly late Weimar or Third Reich guns. All had original barrels (bore condition varied all over the place), were matching and often had matching (DDR produced) magazines. Serial numbers on some small parts were of the size I associate with the DDR rebuilt Lugers. I don't think I saw one with post-WWII DDR commercial proof, all retained pre-1945 German military proof marks (including firing proof). Some had the "X" marking on the left side of the barrel extension we now associate with Soviet capture Lugers. All had been refinished with a muddy looking dip blue. To the limited extent I could get a point of origin, they seemed to have originated from countries that touched the Red sea or the Gulf of Aden (with Yemen being most commonly mentioned). The provenance of these guns prior to their arrival in Africa/Arabia was as muddy as their finish. The "X" mark on some suggest the Soviet Union was involved for some guns, at some point. The matching numbered, DDR produced magazines suggest a DDR connection. I don’t recall any of these guns coming into the US after the 1968 GCA.

The next batch or batches of DDR Lugers I recall came into the US in the mid to late 1980s. These were what I think of as ‘typical DDR police Lugers”. All had DDR produced magazines, usually matched to the Luger. All had matching serial numbers. Some parts (esp. side plates) were obvious replacements, new serial numbers of a larger size that original numbers, sometimes original number struck out with an “X”, sometimes original numbers removed. Almost all that I handled had replacement barrels. Some barrels had post-war DDR commercial proof marks, some were unmarked, and some had odd markings that didn’t seem related to anything. Some but not all of these Lugers had the DDR number-in-star-burst property mark. All had a muddy re-blue finish. This batch is where, I think, I first saw a mix of military and commercial style numbering on small parts on DDR Lugers

In the early 1990s, I think 1992/1993, there were a bunch (several hundred, I think) Lugers brought into the USA from the recently reunified Germany. These looked to me to be guns specifically made up or rebuilt for the commercial market. All had high polish hot salt blue, all parts matched, with some small parts having the large, DDR style, serial number font. All had new barrels, numbered to the pistol, with C/N DDR firing proof. I faintly recall many of these had the DDR firing proof on barrel extension and toggle train as well. These were very pretty guns, but functional problems were common (failure to feed and failure to eject being the most common complaints).

Those are the three big (in terms of numbers of Lugers) waves of DDR guns I recall seeing come into the US. I saw any number of other DDR Lugers come in, but those were “onesie/twosie” guns that came mixed into batches of other kinds of firearms.

The only other big wave (in terms of number of guns) of Lugers that arrived post 68 GCA that I recall were the batches of Lugers that came out of the PRC in the late 1980s, early 1990s. These were sorry guns; mismatched, function that ran from poor to none, little to no original finish, poor bores. I remember Paragon imported a bunch of these and sold them for $100 each. I bought a half-dozen or so and sent them all back as being unsafe/not functional. One Luger I recall in particular had a toggle train that, down and locked, stopped a good quarter inch short of the barrel.

Anyway, my recollections, offered entirely for what they are worth.

Kyrie

[Kyrie]

Calling Dieter Marschall....

Dieter, are you available? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, as you essentially wrote the book on DDR Lugers...

Very best,

Kyrie