1920 Single date

Uncle Mike · 07-11-2001, 08:56 AM

Can any one give me info on a 1920 dwm with a Mauser Arbiten proof(M over A) and only nitro proofs (crown over N).It also has an inventory number on the front grip strap beging with"O" and four numbers.My research has led me to believe that this is a parts gun made in the 20's by Mauser and issued to "ostfleet" but different sources give me conflicting answers. Mike C.

bill m · 07-11-2001, 01:05 PM

Hi,

The 1920 can be either the date of manufacture or a property mark showing it belonged to the German Government. You need to include the serial number to determine if it is of new manufacture or a rework.

The "o" on the grip strap in a Navy mark.

The crown over N is a commercial proof found on almost all Lugers made after 1919.

Johnny Peppers · 07-11-2001, 04:08 PM

If the pistol is a 1920 date it should be a ns, or a or b suffix. If not, the 1920 is probably the property mark.

Uncle Mike · 07-11-2001, 07:11 PM

The 1920 single date has an script "s" suffix after serial numer---' XXXX s 'Was the "M overA" used in the '20's or was this a latter rework?

Johnny Peppers · 07-11-2001, 07:54 PM

I don't know that the M over A has been documented as to it's origin. I think at this time it is still assumed to be a Mauser stamp, but have no new information on it.

Uncle Mike · 07-12-2001, 08:58 AM

Aarron Davis's book"The Luger Handbook"lists 1920 M&P as "this model consists of reworked and newly assembled parts pistols",also that newly assembled parts "only had Nitro proofs".This single date only has Nitro proofs and the date is not restruck as there are no signs of another date being removed.Thats why M over A may indeed be a Mauser rework stamp.Another interesting thing is the"O on the grip strap.This is a Naval mark but this has a 4" barrel.Thanks for your input. Mike C.

07-12-2001, 09:04 AM

According to Still, Weimar Lugers, The MA marking stands for "Marine Arsenal" I believe or "Marine Artillerie" I have seen it defined both ways...at any rate it was re-worked/conditioned by a Navy arsenal. In other references one can find some discussion of the German Navy's Artillerie Arsenal performing all manner of equipment conversion and even manufacture ie Luger holsters. This marking has much earlier been attributed to mean "Mauser Arbieten" or Mauser Worked/ ie reworked. I agree with Still's explanation. All of these pistols that I have seen are property marked with the O for Ostsee and tend to show a good bit of wear and use, with many showing mismatched parts....which I feel happened while in German service. I do agree that you should check the serial number suffix, I believe that most were "S" block..but I am not positive. They seem to have been produced around 1929? and the 1920 date you see is merely a Weimar property stamp and not a manufacture date. IMO these pistols are fairly rare and desirable.

07-12-2001, 03:01 PM

I am not suggesting that the pistol was re-worked from a dated WWI military, but rather was new made (perhaps commercial hence the proofs) in the later 1920's. If this pistol found it's way into the Navy inventory (say 1928-33) it would have been entirely correct to have the "1920" PROPERTY marking added to the blank chamber. As I'm sure you realize that the 1920 marking was used long after the year the order came out to mark these weapons (1920). The Navy started using 4 inch. barrel P.08's right after WWI and continued this until 1945. Many and perhaps most of the 6 inch. Navys still on hand in the 20's were converted (re-worked) into 4 inch. versions. The O followed by several numbers ia a well known and documented as a Navy property marking and only that. I can not comment with hard evidence on the Mauser Re-work theory, but I would strongly recommend that you take a look at Still's book, Weimar Lugers, as he provides some decent information on these pistols and the German Nays's re-work program.

Uncle Mike · 07-12-2001, 04:24 PM

Thank You ALL for your information I just ordered 4 of Still's books and purchased a printer so I can keep these messages. Thanks again,Mike C.

07-11-2001, 08:56 AM	#1
Uncle Mike User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1920 Single date Can any one give me info on a 1920 dwm with a Mauser Arbiten proof(M over A) and only nitro proofs (crown over N).It also has an inventory number on the front grip strap beging with"O" and four numbers.My research has led me to believe that this is a parts gun made in the 20's by Mauser and issued to "ostfleet" but different sources give me conflicting answers. Mike C.

07-11-2001, 01:05 PM	#2
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1920 Single date Hi, The 1920 can be either the date of manufacture or a property mark showing it belonged to the German Government. You need to include the serial number to determine if it is of new manufacture or a rework. The "o" on the grip strap in a Navy mark. The crown over N is a commercial proof found on almost all Lugers made after 1919.

07-11-2001, 04:08 PM	#3
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 1920 Single date If the pistol is a 1920 date it should be a ns, or a or b suffix. If not, the 1920 is probably the property mark.

07-11-2001, 07:11 PM	#4
Uncle Mike User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1920 Single date The 1920 single date has an script "s" suffix after serial numer---' XXXX s 'Was the "M overA" used in the '20's or was this a latter rework?

07-11-2001, 07:54 PM	#5
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 1920 Single date I don't know that the M over A has been documented as to it's origin. I think at this time it is still assumed to be a Mauser stamp, but have no new information on it.

07-12-2001, 08:58 AM	#6
Uncle Mike User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1920 Single date Aarron Davis's book"The Luger Handbook"lists 1920 M&P as "this model consists of reworked and newly assembled parts pistols",also that newly assembled parts "only had Nitro proofs".This single date only has Nitro proofs and the date is not restruck as there are no signs of another date being removed.Thats why M over A may indeed be a Mauser rework stamp.Another interesting thing is the"O on the grip strap.This is a Naval mark but this has a 4" barrel.Thanks for your input. Mike C.

07-12-2001, 09:04 AM	#7
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Marine Arsenal According to Still, Weimar Lugers, The MA marking stands for "Marine Arsenal" I believe or "Marine Artillerie" I have seen it defined both ways...at any rate it was re-worked/conditioned by a Navy arsenal. In other references one can find some discussion of the German Navy's Artillerie Arsenal performing all manner of equipment conversion and even manufacture ie Luger holsters. This marking has much earlier been attributed to mean "Mauser Arbieten" or Mauser Worked/ ie reworked. I agree with Still's explanation. All of these pistols that I have seen are property marked with the O for Ostsee and tend to show a good bit of wear and use, with many showing mismatched parts....which I feel happened while in German service. I do agree that you should check the serial number suffix, I believe that most were "S" block..but I am not positive. They seem to have been produced around 1929? and the 1920 date you see is merely a Weimar property stamp and not a manufacture date. IMO these pistols are fairly rare and desirable.

07-12-2001, 03:01 PM	#8
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 1920 Single date I am not suggesting that the pistol was re-worked from a dated WWI military, but rather was new made (perhaps commercial hence the proofs) in the later 1920's. If this pistol found it's way into the Navy inventory (say 1928-33) it would have been entirely correct to have the "1920" PROPERTY marking added to the blank chamber. As I'm sure you realize that the 1920 marking was used long after the year the order came out to mark these weapons (1920). The Navy started using 4 inch. barrel P.08's right after WWI and continued this until 1945. Many and perhaps most of the 6 inch. Navys still on hand in the 20's were converted (re-worked) into 4 inch. versions. The O followed by several numbers ia a well known and documented as a Navy property marking and only that. I can not comment with hard evidence on the Mauser Re-work theory, but I would strongly recommend that you take a look at Still's book, Weimar Lugers, as he provides some decent information on these pistols and the German Nays's re-work program.

07-12-2001, 04:24 PM	#9
Uncle Mike User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Marine Arsenal/1920 Luger Thank You ALL for your information I just ordered 4 of Still's books and purchased a printer so I can keep these messages. Thanks again,Mike C.