Trivia <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Patrick · 04-06-2001, 04:51 AM

This is a muzzle protector I picked up some time ago. It is WaA stamped with the eagle and swastika. Apparently it was only used by the Police to protect the muzzle from the cleaning rod. But then, why was it WaA stamped? Patrick

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/MP

John Sabato · 04-06-2001, 09:24 AM

Can I presume that th smaller round end fits tightly in the muzzle? Why do you suppose there is a flat ground over the knurled section?

-John

Patrick · 04-06-2001, 12:15 PM

John: it fits over the front sight with a spring-loaded bayonet attachment. Would anyone go to all that trouble just to prevent the muzzle from wearing due to use of the cleaning rod? It must have been used for something else as well. The picture was taken directly from the parts on the scanner. Patrick

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/MP3

Ted · 04-06-2001, 12:20 PM

Kyrie has told me that some of the other muzzle protectors (I thought that was what they were) were part of a sub caliber arrangement for practicing! Dont have a clue if that is what you have! Maybe he will post soon! Ted

John Sabato · 04-06-2001, 12:23 PM

Why don't you try it with your new Baby? If it captures as much detail as the muzzle protector, it should be a great macro image!

-John

04-06-2001, 12:56 PM

Could this possibly be an adapter for a suppressor? Just my guess.

John Sabato · 04-06-2001, 01:32 PM

to Lugers and P-38s But I think this is muzzle protector as Patrick suggests.

John D. · 04-06-2001, 01:42 PM

Patrick is correct - there is a picture in one of my books and it shows this as a cleaning rod guide. I'll try to find it later tonight and post back.. Ted, on the 4mm Swiss conversion - there is an attachment that attaches in a similiar manner, but it is not spring loaded. Rather, I believe that attachment "clips" to the front sight mount..

Finally - no - it is not a suppressor mount of any sort. All the noise suppressors ("silencers") whether the .30 or the 9MM (made in 1928, 1929 and 1930) screwed onto the end of the barrel (the sight barrel band "unscrews" to allow these silencers to attach)...

Patrick · 04-06-2001, 02:16 PM

Bender says it is a cleaning rod guide. Maybe the German police had shaky hands. Patrick

John D. · 04-06-2001, 02:28 PM

back then, apparently also had a rather dangerous habit of forgetting that the Luger was LOADED when they went to disassemble it - hence the sear safeties for Police Issued Lugers

Forgetfulness - now coupled with your comment of "shaky hands" - does not paint a great image of what the Police forces were like back then...

04-06-2001, 03:42 PM

There is a picture of this device in John Walter's book "The Luger Pistol" on page 270. Its identified as "a muzzle bush used to prevent the metal shaft of the cleaning rod from wearing the rifling at the muzzle".

John D. · 04-06-2001, 03:44 PM

John D. · 04-06-2001, 03:51 PM

There was a .22 suppressor attached to an ERMA conversion. That suppressor attached to the protrusion of the conversion barrel where the second knurled nut was fitted. I also believe it was a Krieghoff setup and was brought back into the USA after the war. Subsequently, that silencer was cut in half by BATF.

Milt Keller · 04-07-2001, 10:43 AM

Ask the Soviets, they killed 75% of 'em.

Milt

04-11-2001, 12:56 AM

These items were used as muzzle protectors to save the lands and groves in the crown from wear from cleaning; the same device was the integral part of the Goman patent 4mm sub caliber device used by the Prussian police in the late 1920s and early 1930s. It is a question of which came first, the muzzle protector or the sub-caliber device. The first sub-caliber devices used by the Prussian police fastened over the sight block similar like some of the Swiss devices, but this was an unstable method and a more secure fastening was sought. The Goman device was succeded by an Erma method which had a similar conical muzzle anchor but which was tightened by threads over the sight block rather than using the spring loaded locking system. There was an excellent article in DWJ some years ago on these devices.

Why would there be a WaA on such a device? These subcaliber muzzle devices are quite simple to duplicate by a qualified machinist and have been in Germany some years ago.

Odd markings and pristine condition are a give-away. I purchased one from a collector who had picked it up in Germany. The supposed Prussian police markings had been engraved on the flat face of the conical base, which was intended for markings. So beware.

Ted · 04-11-2001, 01:00 AM

Now I feel better, I thought i was the only one that thought it MIGHT be a protector! Kyrie told me this on another one similar and I listen to him! He is smart! Ted

Ted · 04-11-2001, 01:01 AM

I meant sub caliber part, I am sleepy, going to bed now!

ESKO · 07-12-2001, 03:04 AM

this is a part of 4,2mm inside barrel.

BR Esko

04-06-2001, 04:51 AM	#1
Patrick User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Trivia This is a muzzle protector I picked up some time ago. It is WaA stamped with the eagle and swastika. Apparently it was only used by the Police to protect the muzzle from the cleaning rod. But then, why was it WaA stamped? Patrick http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/MP

04-06-2001, 09:24 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Interesting photo Patrick. Can I presume that th smaller round end fits tightly in the muzzle? Why do you suppose there is a flat ground over the knurled section? -John

04-06-2001, 12:15 PM	#3
Patrick User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Muzzle Protector John: it fits over the front sight with a spring-loaded bayonet attachment. Would anyone go to all that trouble just to prevent the muzzle from wearing due to use of the cleaning rod? It must have been used for something else as well. The picture was taken directly from the parts on the scanner. Patrick http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/MP3

04-06-2001, 12:20 PM	#4
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Muzzle Protector Kyrie has told me that some of the other muzzle protectors (I thought that was what they were) were part of a sub caliber arrangement for practicing! Dont have a clue if that is what you have! Maybe he will post soon! Ted

04-06-2001, 12:23 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I have never tried to scan hard objects, but your post looks good Why don't you try it with your new Baby? If it captures as much detail as the muzzle protector, it should be a great macro image! -John

04-06-2001, 12:56 PM	#6
BobL Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Muzzle Protector Could this possibly be an adapter for a suppressor? Just my guess.

04-06-2001, 01:32 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I have seen pictures of suppressors that attached in a similar manner to Lugers and P-38s But I think this is muzzle protector as Patrick suggests.

04-06-2001, 01:42 PM	#8
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	I think that... Patrick is correct - there is a picture in one of my books and it shows this as a cleaning rod guide. I'll try to find it later tonight and post back.. Ted, on the 4mm Swiss conversion - there is an attachment that attaches in a similiar manner, but it is not spring loaded. Rather, I believe that attachment "clips" to the front sight mount.. Finally - no - it is not a suppressor mount of any sort. All the noise suppressors ("silencers") whether the .30 or the 9MM (made in 1928, 1929 and 1930) screwed onto the end of the barrel (the sight barrel band "unscrews" to allow these silencers to attach)...

04-06-2001, 02:16 PM	#9
Patrick User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Bender Bender says it is a cleaning rod guide. Maybe the German police had shaky hands. Patrick

04-06-2001, 02:28 PM	#10
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Don't forget that the Police... back then, apparently also had a rather dangerous habit of forgetting that the Luger was LOADED when they went to disassemble it - hence the sear safeties for Police Issued Lugers Forgetfulness - now coupled with your comment of "shaky hands" - does not paint a great image of what the Police forces were like back then...

04-06-2001, 03:42 PM	#11
REB Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Muzzle Bush.. There is a picture of this device in John Walter's book "The Luger Pistol" on page 270. Its identified as "a muzzle bush used to prevent the metal shaft of the cleaning rod from wearing the rifling at the muzzle".

04-06-2001, 03:44 PM	#12
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	That's the book & picture! THANKS!!! (EOM)

04-06-2001, 03:51 PM	#13
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Oh - I forgot this suppressor.... There was a .22 suppressor attached to an ERMA conversion. That suppressor attached to the protrusion of the conversion barrel where the second knurled nut was fitted. I also believe it was a Krieghoff setup and was brought back into the USA after the war. Subsequently, that silencer was cut in half by BATF.

04-07-2001, 10:43 AM	#14
Milt Keller User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 191 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Bender Ask the Soviets, they killed 75% of 'em. Milt

04-11-2001, 12:56 AM	#15
Joe Wotka Guest Posts: n/a	Trivia-muzzel protector These items were used as muzzle protectors to save the lands and groves in the crown from wear from cleaning; the same device was the integral part of the Goman patent 4mm sub caliber device used by the Prussian police in the late 1920s and early 1930s. It is a question of which came first, the muzzle protector or the sub-caliber device. The first sub-caliber devices used by the Prussian police fastened over the sight block similar like some of the Swiss devices, but this was an unstable method and a more secure fastening was sought. The Goman device was succeded by an Erma method which had a similar conical muzzle anchor but which was tightened by threads over the sight block rather than using the spring loaded locking system. There was an excellent article in DWJ some years ago on these devices. Why would there be a WaA on such a device? These subcaliber muzzle devices are quite simple to duplicate by a qualified machinist and have been in Germany some years ago. Odd markings and pristine condition are a give-away. I purchased one from a collector who had picked it up in Germany. The supposed Prussian police markings had been engraved on the flat face of the conical base, which was intended for markings. So beware.

04-11-2001, 01:00 AM	#16
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Trivia-muzzel protector Now I feel better, I thought i was the only one that thought it MIGHT be a protector! Kyrie told me this on another one similar and I listen to him! He is smart! Ted

04-11-2001, 01:01 AM	#17
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Trivia-muzzel protector I meant sub caliber part, I am sleepy, going to bed now!

07-12-2001, 03:04 AM	#18
ESKO User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: helsinki Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Muzzle Protector this is a part of 4,2mm inside barrel. BR Esko