LugerMan Restoration Services - Page 4

Ajruger · 02-09-2012, 10:52 PM

Seriously, what is the deal here. "Thor is best". Ok maybe that is true. Hey. Maybe he does do excellent or the best work. However that doesn't mean someone else can't be just as good or better. We are all human and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Also the thing with "you get what you pay for" is a bunch of crap. Yeah there are some areas where that applies well too. But there are others where you just have to scratch your head and ask why the hell does this cost so much (is it made out of solid gold). I'm sure the ones complaining about someone paying less money and getting a product just as good or better is really putting a bitter taste in there mouth. That is why they are bitching so much. For Pete's sake the guy just wanted to know of some good places to get his pistol restored. Who he picks shouldn't matter a dam bit to you.

MadMike · 03-27-2012, 10:12 PM

I sent a check to Luger Man (Eugene G.) back in January for a number os small parts and all I have gotten in return is that the parts will be shipped etc. I have contacted the postal service and filed a conplaint.

cirelaw · 03-27-2012, 10:26 PM

When You find the best. Theres no room for the Rest! 'TED'

Curly1 · 03-27-2012, 11:31 PM

Not the first complaint we have seen here.

I think there was another post not long ago about not receieving a part but it did eventually come.

Hopefully it will end well with you also.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-27-2012, 11:44 PM

Seriously, what is the deal here. "Thor is best". Ok maybe that is true. Hey. Maybe he does do excellent or the best work. However that doesn't mean someone else can't be just as good or better. We are all human and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Also the thing with "you get what you pay for" is a bunch of crap. Yeah there are some areas where that applies well too. But there are others where you just have to scratch your head and ask why the hell does this cost so much (is it made out of solid gold). I'm sure the ones complaining about someone paying less money and getting a product just as good or better is really putting a bitter taste in there mouth. That is why they are bitching so much. For Pete's sake the guy just wanted to know of some good places to get his pistol restored. Who he picks shouldn't matter a dam bit to you.

Andrew..If you want to continue to post on this board you WILL stop the potty mouth. One strike is all your getting. A person who swears to reinforce his argument just shows his immaturity. It won't be tolerated. Please edit your post to remove the filth and apologize.

Jerry Burney-MODERATOR

Kitkat041836 · 03-28-2012, 12:45 AM

I would like to add that I was told that if you send a gun to
Ted Green when he finished it he will only send it back to
your FFL dealer and you will have it reregsterd to you
at that extra cost to you.I have sent guns to gun smiths
that sent them back to me as they were my guns in the first place.Just to let you know that is what I have heard so you can check it out for your self.
Thanks George

alanint · 03-28-2012, 06:41 AM

Hmmm, how exactly, can Ted be assured that it is your gun in the first place?

While I do understand this whole, "off the grid" mentality some people have. I support Ted in his desire to keep everything official and above board. What if, as an FFL, Ted receives a stolen gun report on some piece he just mailed back to a PO box, which is now closed and the perp has vanished? What does he do then? Keep it quiet?

"Ted Green when he finished it he will only send it back to
your FFL dealer and you will have it reregsterd to you"

If your concern here is being placed "on the grid" by the pistol being returned through an FFL, you are wasting your time. Ted, (and any other professional you choose to send your pistol out to) has to log your pistol into their books and by law, attach your name to it. If a BATF bulletin featuring your gun's serial number goes out, any FFL who has had it through their books is legally obligated to provide your information as having owned or posessed it on such and such a date.

alvin · 03-28-2012, 07:01 AM

Why not apply for a C&R FFL? $30 for three years, you just need 1 or 2 transactions to save that money back in three years.

John Sabato · 03-28-2012, 09:26 AM

Ted Green (THOR) is up front in his business practices... If he chooses to require that gun shipment take place to a FFL holder if the client does not have a C&R, that methodology while unusual, protects both him as a service provider, and the client.

While the law does allow a citizen to send his personal firearm to a FFL holder like Ted, and have it shipped back to the citizen who is not a FFL or C&R license holder, that does not offer liability protection for the business if the gun turns up missing or if the gun is stolen...

Firearm repair transactions are required to be documented by the FFL who handles the gun by the BATFE... You might fault Ted for slow service when things get stacked up, but you can't blame him for taking a strict stance on procedure when it comes to dealing with the BATFE... The service provider is the one who is subject to periodic inspection by the Feds, not the client.

If you don't like the rules he has established for doing business with him, then don't send your gun to Ted for refinishing... it's that simple.

Kitkat041836 · 03-28-2012, 09:54 AM

I just thought I would let the fourm members know his rules
for doing business with him,as he does not post his rules anywhere
on his sight about this,and after you find out it is to late to
get it back,without haveing to go through this.I don't think
someone would send a stolen gun to have it fixed to a FFL
dealer knowing he has to report all his transactions to the
BATF.
Thanks George

John Sabato · 03-28-2012, 10:57 AM

It would be easy for a stolen gun to enter "normal" commerce. Scenario: A gun is stolen in a burglary and transported out of state. The gun is offered as a bargain in a private sale in a classified ad in a small town newspaper... and VIOLA! A regular citizen now OWNS a gun he believes is legally his. He uses the gun for a year or more and then trades it to another person for something he wants more... The new owner realizes the value of the gun and decides to keep it and have it restored so his grandchildren will enjoy it for decades to come... off it goes to a restoration service... and for the FIRST time, the serial number is recorded as required by law of the FFL holder. Then the FFL holder's records are routinely inspected by a BATFE agent who checks some random serial numbers... One gun comes up stolen in the inspection and the FFL holder's records indicate it was return-shipped to the owner of record at a PO box that when investigated is PO box that is no longer used.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

I have done business with Ted Green myself, and he made sure that I understood that if I didn't possess a valid C&R license that the gun would have to be returned through a FFL holder. Sometimes in our excitement to get something accomplished, we don't always remember everything we are told. I am not saying that is what happened to you, but Ted has been doing this for over a decade and I know his policies about shipment of the firearm have not changed.

LugerMan.com · 03-28-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMike

I sent a check to Luger Man (Eugene G.) back in January for a number os small parts and all I have gotten in return is that the parts will be shipped etc. I have contacted the postal service and filed a conplaint.

HI,
Some parts that require custom work, take me longer to ship.
If i did not send it already, I will do so this weekend.

I ship parts orders on the weekends and can only prep and ship so meany in one weekend.

I have recently changed my Email footer to note the possible delay in shipping orders.

Thanks.

Kitkat041836 · 03-28-2012, 11:46 AM

I live in Califonia and they no longer accept C &R license.
I have heard that if you have a gun restored you will lose some of it's value as a collectors peace,so it would not be a
good idea to have that done so your grandchildern will not
have a gun that would be worth as much as it would have been if you had not had that done.
Thanks George

MadMike · 04-09-2012, 08:22 PM

After more than two months of waiting and numerous emails I finally received the parts that I ordered from Gene (aka Lugerman). The parts are in good condition but it should not have taken this long for parts that were in stock.

sheepherder · 04-09-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMike

The parts are in good condition but it should not have taken this long for parts that were in stock.

I'll tell a little story (without an ending)...Back on 02/27/12 I phoned in an order for a Redfield micrometer receiver sight to a well-known Texas sight dealer (doesn't have a web site or email)...He looked through his stock, found exactly the sight I wanted, reasonable price [$57], set it aside awaiting my money order, and told me it would be 4 - 6 weeks for delivery...Huh??? 4 - 6 weeks to pack it up and send it out???

...It's been 6 weeks...I'm still waiting...

policeluger · 04-09-2012, 10:03 PM

I know, use him from time to time.....he's old and slow, but we'er all getting that way

Edward Tinker · 04-09-2012, 10:35 PM

PLEASE READ THE REGULATIONS

It is perfectly legal for a NON licensed person to receive their OWN gun back to them, I quote ATF reg 5300-11

Quote:

§ 478.147 Return of firearm. A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law may ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign
commerce to that person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type. (See § 478.124(a) for requirements of a Form 4473 prior to return.) A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law may ship a firearm curio or relic to a licensed collector for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed collector may return in interstate or foreign commerce to the person the firearm curio or relic.

see pdf below if needed

lugersrkewl · 04-09-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

PLEASE READ THE REGULATIONS

It is perfectly legal for a NON licensed person to receive their OWN gun back to them, I quote ATF reg 5300-11

see pdf below if needed

so say I sold a gun and shipped to ffl and the person decided not to buy and didnt transfer the gun on their end the ffl could 2nd day air it to my door?

Edward Tinker · 04-10-2012, 12:14 AM

That is the way I read it

ATF 5300-4

[quote]§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of
importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive
any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection
(b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it
was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned
in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector;
(B) this paragraph shall not be
held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for
conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of
section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable
of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and
(C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the
District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United
States;
(3) for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a
firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm
into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B)
shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity
with subsection (b)(3) of this section,
and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of
this chapter;

policeluger · 04-10-2012, 12:37 AM

Not in the Republic of Calivornia.......must go from dealer to dealer......we are blessed that way...

02-09-2012, 10:52 PM	#61
Ajruger User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Near Memphis TN Posts: 39 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Seriously, what is the deal here. "Thor is best". Ok maybe that is true. Hey. Maybe he does do excellent or the best work. However that doesn't mean someone else can't be just as good or better. We are all human and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Also the thing with "you get what you pay for" is a bunch of crap. Yeah there are some areas where that applies well too. But there are others where you just have to scratch your head and ask why the hell does this cost so much (is it made out of solid gold). I'm sure the ones complaining about someone paying less money and getting a product just as good or better is really putting a bitter taste in there mouth. That is why they are bitching so much. For Pete's sake the guy just wanted to know of some good places to get his pistol restored. Who he picks shouldn't matter a dam bit to you. Last edited by Ajruger; 02-09-2012 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Messed up

03-27-2012, 11:31 PM	#64
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,228 Thanks: 111 Thanked 702 Times in 364 Posts	Not the first complaint we have seen here. I think there was another post not long ago about not receieving a part but it did eventually come. Hopefully it will end well with you also. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary Last edited by Curly1; 03-28-2012 at 12:28 AM.

03-27-2012, 11:44 PM	#65
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Seriously, what is the deal here. "Thor is best". Ok maybe that is true. Hey. Maybe he does do excellent or the best work. However that doesn't mean someone else can't be just as good or better. We are all human and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Also the thing with "you get what you pay for" is a bunch of crap. Yeah there are some areas where that applies well too. But there are others where you just have to scratch your head and ask why the hell does this cost so much (is it made out of solid gold). I'm sure the ones complaining about someone paying less money and getting a product just as good or better is really putting a bitter taste in there mouth. That is why they are bitching so much. For Pete's sake the guy just wanted to know of some good places to get his pistol restored. Who he picks shouldn't matter a dam bit to you. Andrew..If you want to continue to post on this board you WILL stop the potty mouth. One strike is all your getting. A person who swears to reinforce his argument just shows his immaturity. It won't be tolerated. Please edit your post to remove the filth and apologize. Jerry Burney-MODERATOR __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-28-2012, 06:41 AM	#67
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Hmmm, how exactly, can Ted be assured that it is your gun in the first place? While I do understand this whole, "off the grid" mentality some people have. I support Ted in his desire to keep everything official and above board. What if, as an FFL, Ted receives a stolen gun report on some piece he just mailed back to a PO box, which is now closed and the perp has vanished? What does he do then? Keep it quiet? "Ted Green when he finished it he will only send it back to your FFL dealer and you will have it reregsterd to you" If your concern here is being placed "on the grid" by the pistol being returned through an FFL, you are wasting your time. Ted, (and any other professional you choose to send your pistol out to) has to log your pistol into their books and by law, attach your name to it. If a BATF bulletin featuring your gun's serial number goes out, any FFL who has had it through their books is legally obligated to provide your information as having owned or posessed it on such and such a date. Last edited by alanint; 03-28-2012 at 09:44 AM.

03-28-2012, 09:26 AM	#69
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ted Green (THOR) is up front in his business practices... If he chooses to require that gun shipment take place to a FFL holder if the client does not have a C&R, that methodology while unusual, protects both him as a service provider, and the client. While the law does allow a citizen to send his personal firearm to a FFL holder like Ted, and have it shipped back to the citizen who is not a FFL or C&R license holder, that does not offer liability protection for the business if the gun turns up missing or if the gun is stolen... Firearm repair transactions are required to be documented by the FFL who handles the gun by the BATFE... You might fault Ted for slow service when things get stacked up, but you can't blame him for taking a strict stance on procedure when it comes to dealing with the BATFE... The service provider is the one who is subject to periodic inspection by the Feds, not the client. If you don't like the rules he has established for doing business with him, then don't send your gun to Ted for refinishing... it's that simple. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-27-2012, 10:12 PM	#62
MadMike New User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Renton, Wa Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I sent a check to Luger Man (Eugene G.) back in January for a number os small parts and all I have gotten in return is that the parts will be shipped etc. I have contacted the postal service and filed a conplaint.

03-27-2012, 10:26 PM	#63
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	When You find the best. Theres no room for the Rest! 'TED'

03-28-2012, 12:45 AM	#66
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	I would like to add that I was told that if you send a gun to Ted Green when he finished it he will only send it back to your FFL dealer and you will have it reregsterd to you at that extra cost to you.I have sent guns to gun smiths that sent them back to me as they were my guns in the first place.Just to let you know that is what I have heard so you can check it out for your self. Thanks George

03-28-2012, 07:01 AM	#68
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Why not apply for a C&R FFL? $30 for three years, you just need 1 or 2 transactions to save that money back in three years.

03-28-2012, 09:54 AM	#70
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	I just thought I would let the fourm members know his rules for doing business with him,as he does not post his rules anywhere on his sight about this,and after you find out it is to late to get it back,without haveing to go through this.I don't think someone would send a stolen gun to have it fixed to a FFL dealer knowing he has to report all his transactions to the BATF. Thanks George

03-28-2012, 10:57 AM	#71
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	It would be easy for a stolen gun to enter "normal" commerce. Scenario: A gun is stolen in a burglary and transported out of state. The gun is offered as a bargain in a private sale in a classified ad in a small town newspaper... and VIOLA! A regular citizen now OWNS a gun he believes is legally his. He uses the gun for a year or more and then trades it to another person for something he wants more... The new owner realizes the value of the gun and decides to keep it and have it restored so his grandchildren will enjoy it for decades to come... off it goes to a restoration service... and for the FIRST time, the serial number is recorded as required by law of the FFL holder. Then the FFL holder's records are routinely inspected by a BATFE agent who checks some random serial numbers... One gun comes up stolen in the inspection and the FFL holder's records indicate it was return-shipped to the owner of record at a PO box that when investigated is PO box that is no longer used. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... I have done business with Ted Green myself, and he made sure that I understood that if I didn't possess a valid C&R license that the gun would have to be returned through a FFL holder. Sometimes in our excitement to get something accomplished, we don't always remember everything we are told. I am not saying that is what happened to you, but Ted has been doing this for over a decade and I know his policies about shipment of the firearm have not changed. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-28-2012, 11:46 AM	#73
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	I live in Califonia and they no longer accept C &R license. I have heard that if you have a gun restored you will lose some of it's value as a collectors peace,so it would not be a good idea to have that done so your grandchildern will not have a gun that would be worth as much as it would have been if you had not had that done. Thanks George

04-09-2012, 08:22 PM	#74
MadMike New User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Renton, Wa Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	After more than two months of waiting and numerous emails I finally received the parts that I ordered from Gene (aka Lugerman). The parts are in good condition but it should not have taken this long for parts that were in stock.

04-09-2012, 10:03 PM	#76
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I know, use him from time to time.....he's old and slow, but we'er all getting that way

04-10-2012, 12:14 AM	#79
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	That is the way I read it ATF 5300-4 [quote]§ 922 Unlawful acts. (a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce; (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that— (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; (B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and (C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States; (3) for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

04-10-2012, 12:37 AM	#80
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Not in the Republic of Calivornia.......must go from dealer to dealer......we are blessed that way...