42 Police Luger Numbers Question - Page 2

DavidJayUden · 02-26-2018, 01:03 PM

It's sad and we can all speculate as to what happened, where, when and why, but at the end of the day, it is mismatched. Personally I'd still like to own it and shoot it, but it would have to be priced right, which it is not.
Also the seller may be in way deep too if they didn't recognize the problem.
I would be interested to see how Simpsons, Ltd. would price such an anomaly if they had it for sale.
dju

markthenav · 02-26-2018, 01:53 PM

Yes, it would be interesting to get Simpson's insights. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone there and I suspect they wouldn't have time/desire to render an opinion...

Dwight Gruber · 02-26-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markthenav

Seems to be agreement that the gun might be a factory error...

I hate to flail a dead horse, but there is not such an agreement about this speculation.

--Dwight

DonVoigt · 02-26-2018, 08:02 PM

Folks "wish" for factory errors, but they are really not a reasonable possibility.
The parts were numbered for a reason, i.e. so they would fit.
They would never pass final factory inspection with mismatched numbers.

I see only two opinions, one vastly out-numbered by the weight of evidence against "factory errors" that result in mis-matched numbers.
Strike out/strike over corrections of numbering do exist, which further supports the "no factory numbering error left the factory without correction" camp. JMHO.

As to a sellers opinion is just that, and worth no more than yours.
I always believed that : a mismatch is a "factory error" if selling; it is a simple but costly mismatch if one is buying.

DavidJayUden · 02-26-2018, 08:58 PM

D:
I agree that it all depends on where you stand on the deal.
I'm still having trouble getting my arms around the likelihood that the switch occurred outside of the factory, and would vote for "in-house" error. But, of course we could argue that until dawn and no one would win. And in the end it would matter not.
dju

DonVoigt · 02-26-2018, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

D:
I agree that it all depends on where you stand on the deal.
I'm still having trouble getting my arms around the likelihood that the switch occurred outside of the factory, and would vote for "in-house" error. But, of course we could argue that until dawn and no one would win. And in the end it would matter not.
dju

The sear safety was added to "police" lugers by police armorers; which is a much more likely place that a switch possibly could have occurred, rather than the factory.

But like you said before, we will never know and no use to argue; we can agree that it is interesting and odd for sure.

DavidJayUden · 02-26-2018, 10:09 PM

So just for the sake of conversation, would you speculate that while it was in for police mod, the lowers got accidentally switched with another gun OR they, for whatever reason, replaced the frame and misnumbered it at that time?
dju

DonVoigt · 02-27-2018, 08:19 AM

For the fun of it, I'd think it much more likely that "they" were adding the spring to the upper(seems Mauser drilled the holes but did not put the spring on) and when re-assembling the upper/lower assemblies they were switched.

Could be confirmed if we were to find the "opposite" mismatch!

mrerick · 02-27-2018, 10:16 AM

As Dwight said, there is no agreement about the factory mismatching the Luger. There were teams of inspectors (government and factory) who's job was to ensure compliance with regulations.

It's a higher end mismatched shooter, and a desirable one at the right price. I think it's worth much less than $1500. Perhaps $1250 or so.

DavidJayUden · 02-27-2018, 10:57 AM

Granted, things like this are not supposed to happen, but stuff does happen, even under strict German control, and the odds of this being a random mix-up of 2 consecutively numbered guns that occurred away from the factory just boggles my mind.
Not saying it didn't happen that way, mind you.
dju

wlyon · 02-27-2018, 11:07 AM

It doesn't really matter when, where or why. It is still and always will be a mismatched shooter worth $1200 - 1500. Nothing we can dream up will ever change this. Bill

DonVoigt · 02-27-2018, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Granted, things like this are not supposed to happen, but stuff does happen, even under strict German control, and the odds of this being a random mix-up of 2 consecutively numbered guns that occurred away from the factory just boggles my mind.
Not saying it didn't happen that way, mind you.
dju

There are lots of things that boggle my mind; like computers, the internet, and smart phones!

DonVoigt · 02-27-2018, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

It doesn't really matter when, where or why. It is still and always will be a mismatched shooter worth $1200 - 1500. Nothing we can dream up will ever change this. Bill

No one is arguing that point, mis-matched is mismatched.

02-26-2018, 08:02 PM	#24
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Folks "wish" for factory errors, but they are really not a reasonable possibility. The parts were numbered for a reason, i.e. so they would fit. They would never pass final factory inspection with mismatched numbers. I see only two opinions, one vastly out-numbered by the weight of evidence against "factory errors" that result in mis-matched numbers. Strike out/strike over corrections of numbering do exist, which further supports the "no factory numbering error left the factory without correction" camp. JMHO. As to a sellers opinion is just that, and worth no more than yours. I always believed that : a mismatch is a "factory error" if selling; it is a simple but costly mismatch if one is buying. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

02-27-2018, 08:19 AM	#28
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	For the fun of it, I'd think it much more likely that "they" were adding the spring to the upper(seems Mauser drilled the holes but did not put the spring on) and when re-assembling the upper/lower assemblies they were switched. Could be confirmed if we were to find the "opposite" mismatch! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

02-27-2018, 10:16 AM	#29
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	As Dwight said, there is no agreement about the factory mismatching the Luger. There were teams of inspectors (government and factory) who's job was to ensure compliance with regulations. It's a higher end mismatched shooter, and a desirable one at the right price. I think it's worth much less than $1500. Perhaps $1250 or so. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-27-2018, 11:07 AM	#31
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,615 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,523 Times in 940 Posts	It doesn't really matter when, where or why. It is still and always will be a mismatched shooter worth $1200 - 1500. Nothing we can dream up will ever change this. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-26-2018, 01:03 PM	#21
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It's sad and we can all speculate as to what happened, where, when and why, but at the end of the day, it is mismatched. Personally I'd still like to own it and shoot it, but it would have to be priced right, which it is not. Also the seller may be in way deep too if they didn't recognize the problem. I would be interested to see how Simpsons, Ltd. would price such an anomaly if they had it for sale. dju

02-26-2018, 01:53 PM	#22
markthenav User Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Yes, it would be interesting to get Simpson's insights. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone there and I suspect they wouldn't have time/desire to render an opinion...

02-26-2018, 08:58 PM	#25
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	D: I agree that it all depends on where you stand on the deal. I'm still having trouble getting my arms around the likelihood that the switch occurred outside of the factory, and would vote for "in-house" error. But, of course we could argue that until dawn and no one would win. And in the end it would matter not. dju

02-26-2018, 10:09 PM	#27
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So just for the sake of conversation, would you speculate that while it was in for police mod, the lowers got accidentally switched with another gun OR they, for whatever reason, replaced the frame and misnumbered it at that time? dju

02-27-2018, 10:57 AM	#30
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Granted, things like this are not supposed to happen, but stuff does happen, even under strict German control, and the odds of this being a random mix-up of 2 consecutively numbered guns that occurred away from the factory just boggles my mind. Not saying it didn't happen that way, mind you. dju